Your Rights to Lightroom 3 as a Leica M9 Buyer

[scott kirkpatrick]

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The only partly-announced date in this discussion is the date for LR3 to ship as a commercial version. Since LR3Beta2 is valid through June 2010, one assumes that we'll see the release of LR3 in June. M9 deliveries have accelerated significantly in March, so there will be a lot more owners by that time.

 

scott

[stunsworth]

Since LR3Beta2 is valid through June 2010, one assumes that we'll see the release of LR3 in June

 

I assumed LR3 would be available about now as that was when the original beta was released. After saying that the current beta looks a lot more like a release candidate than the first one.

[viramati]

trying to clarify my point. I presume, as with nearly all other upgrades, that on the day LR3 becomes available LR2 will no longer be downloadable so if you get your TAN and serial number after that date surely it must be valid for LR3

[stunsworth]

I presume, as with nearly all other upgrades, that on the day LR3 becomes available LR2 will no longer be downloadable so if you get your TAN and serial number after that date surely it must be valid for LR3

 

Or, as I suggested earlier, the system changes so that Leica either include a physical copy of the LR2 CD in the box, or end one to you once you've registered.

 

To be honest, none of us know and this is all conjecture. It's entirely possible that Leica and Adobe are still working on deciding what will happen.

[andybarton]

Sounds like a reasonable assumption to me.

 

Although they aren't exactly hanging around on shelves, Leica won't know when a particular SN body is to be sold. In theory, one made in January might not be sold until July, for example.

 

Therefore, when Mr/s July comes to register the camera, if LR2 is no longer available, this particular freebie would also no longer be available.

 

Now, no one is going to buy an M9 just because of a bit of free software, but it does form part of the package.

 

FWIW, I don't buy the "I bought an M9 with software I didn't need, I should get a discount" argument at all. EVERY camera comes with software you don't need.

[wattsy]

I suspect that Leica has a batch of serial numbers that it has pre-bought and which it issues out when a buyer registers their TAN number. These serial numbers will almost certainly not work with LR3 (Adobe serial numbers are very product specific) so the key question is what will happen to the unissued serial numbers when LR3 becomes available (and LR2 is discontinued). Either Leica will be permitted to continue to offer LR2 as a download (does anyone know for sure whether it comes off a Leica or Adobe server?) until Leica uses up it's current allocation of serial numbers or Adobe will issue Leica with a new batch of serial numbers for LR3 and customers registering their TAN numbers from that point on will receive a serial number for LR3. I seriously doubt whether Leica will start messing around with CDs (Steve's suggestion) so the question to me hangs on whether Leica are permitted to continue to offer LR2 as a download after LR3 becomes official. If not, then they will need a new bunch of serial numbers and customers will get LR3.

 

What I am pretty certain about is that anyone who has already used their TAN number and received their serial number for LR2 will not be entitled to a free upgrade to LR3.

[ShyTot]

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The FACT is that Stefan Daniel personally negotiated the supply contract with Adobe for LR2. It does not extend to LR3. The contract was in Adobe's interests to take revenue and secure an expanded market share bringing future Upgrade revenue. M9 customers pay for the facility within the purchase price. A new contract needs to be agreed and announced by Leica.

 

Leica prefer to include 3rd party software as part of their product as they do not have their own, as have Nikon, Canon, Hasselblad, Phase etc. They will not provide out-of-date software, but it doesn't have to be LR3.

 

There's no certainty that a TAN will be valid beyond the end of the contract and it's the customer's responsibility to take advantage of the facility whilst it's still available.

[viramati]

Shytot I really don't think this can be the case as when you buy the camera you are not getting a disc which has a certain version on in (say LR2) but a link to get a licence. If you buy a camera on the day LR3 comes out then surely you will be able to download that version as the other will no longer be available unless and I say unless LR2 remains downloadable from lets say Leica's own website.

[sandymc]

Ian's entirely right - Adobe serial numbers are version specific, so what you get with your M9 is a Lightroom 2 license. And all previous versions of Lightroom remain available for download, they don't disappear, they just get a little less visible. See here for a full list, all the way back to Lightroom 1: Adobe - Lightroom : For Macintosh

 

Sandy

[Rolo]

and of course there's Adobe's Policy to allow a free Upgrade to anyone buying a product within 30 days of the new product being available.

 

Adobe's John Nack is already encouraging those with Photoshop CS1/2/3 to pay for an upgrade to CS4 for a subsequent free upgrade to CS5.

[viramati]

stand corrected

[Shootist]

trying to clarify my point. I presume, as with nearly all other upgrades, that on the day LR3 becomes available LR2 will no longer be downloadable so if you get your TAN and serial number after that date surely it must be valid for LR3

 

No not really. I can still find LR V1 on the Adobe site. And since there are camera companies that bundle LR 2 with there cameras, Leica, Adobe will set up a area for those camera buyer to get the software that is included with that camera.

[andybarton]

 

Adobe's John Nack is already encouraging those with Photoshop CS1/2/3 to pay for an upgrade to CS4 for a subsequent free upgrade to CS5.

 

is that right? If so, might update my CS3 today.

[Benoit Petot]

As everyone, In can only guess. But I believe that the Leïca’s position as reported by UliWer allows us to be relatively optimistic.

 

I understand that Adobe is here to do business but (based on my work experience of 20 Years of software sales, and my personal assumptions) :

 

 

 

1 – The financial issue for Leïca and Adobe must be relatively small:

• With an average of 40 M9 per day since Sept9, and 2/3 of them having downloaded LR 2 we are speaking about 5000 Licenses
  
• The public cost for upgrade from LR1 to LR2 is 118€ in France, versus 298 for the full license (that should be discounted by 30 / 50% to get the issue manageable)
  
• The maximum revenue would be of 300K to 400K€ (400 to 540K$)
  

Does that worth the pain, and the bad image, and all the issues that Both Leïca & Adobe would have to address ,when you take in account that:

 

 

 

 

2 – The current release that we download with the Leïca voucher is unstable (the standard 2.6 crashes, and we got a specific 2.6.1)

• What would be the cost of support of these 2.6.1 for a handful of users ?
  
• How would react the users who had been either sold a bugged product (2.4, 2.6) or lend a provisional one with 3 upgrades in 5 months (2.4, 2.6, 2.6.1, 3beta1, 3beta2)
  

3 – Leïca & Adobe a playing big together around the DNG, and they cannot afford a negative buzz about their partnership

 

 

 

4 – These 400K should be nothing relatively to the LR3 global budget:

• Thousands of new users won thru a large (and very well managed) beta process
  
• Regular (older than 1 year ?) LR1 & LR2 upgrades
  
• They are not big either versus the global M9 biz-plan
  

I presume that Leïca & Adobe will compromise for a biz which is new for both of them:

• Abode in the Leïca World
  
• Leïca in the stabilized Digital Photography
  

Anyway.

Since I got the new firmware 1.116 & the new LR-3beta2, I am delighted. And I would not stay, for months, with an immature solution to avoid the risk of 100/200 €uros when I’ve already spent 10 000.

[Rolo]

is that right? If so, might update my CS3 today.

 

Me too, except I'm not aware of the introduction date and therefore can't calculate when -30 starts. I know they are launching CS5 on 12th April, but Launch and Issue might be different by more than 30 days. Needs researching.

 

Another Policy is that Upgrades are confined to the last 3 versions. So CS1 can upgrade to CS4, but can't upgrade to CS5. So, if a CS1 owner upgrades to CS4 within the 30 day period, they can get to CS5 for a single upgrade cost and save £600 !!

 

For me, PShop is the most important software I have. I'm on CS3 and will be upgrading to CS5.

[andybarton]

Just been looking at some PS site (not Adobe) and the "guess" is that shipping will be in May.

 

I reckon it's worth holding off for 10 days and see what is actually announced, rather than guess what might happen. I don't know about you, but I'd rather only pay Adobe one £180 fee this year, than two...

[Rolo]

John Nack is the Principal Product Manager for Adobe Photoshop. Keep an eye on his blog.

 

see this for upgrade info:

 

John Nack on Adobe: If you're still on CS1 and want to upgrade, now's a good time

[hoppyman]

Sounds like a reasonable assumption to me.

 

Although they aren't exactly hanging around on shelves, Leica won't know when a particular SN body is to be sold. In theory, one made in January might not be sold until July, for example.

 

Therefore, when Mr/s July comes to register the camera, if LR2 is no longer available, this particular freebie would also no longer be available.

 

Now, no one is going to buy an M9 just because of a bit of free software, but it does form part of the package.

 

FWIW, I don't buy the "I bought an M9 with software I didn't need, I should get a discount" argument at all. EVERY camera comes with software you don't need.

Andy I have not seen every message in this thread, but I haven't seen that anyone is claiming that they are owed a discount if they don't use their entitlement?? Only that (some of us at least) they already have paid for Lightroom 2 and intend to see if they can obtain LR3 with our qualifying Leica products. Meanwhile we cannot use our expensive CS4 suites for M9 files at all either as the crash bug fix has not yet been made available, although the LR2.6.1 fix is available.

I will certainly buy it for the normal upgrade price if necessary.

[stunsworth]

is that right? If so, might update my CS3 today.

 

Why? You'll be able to upgrade from CS3 to CS5 directly when it becomes available.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[andybarton]

Indeed. That is what I will do.

 

I think the link that Rolo is referring to is really for users of CS1 Photoshop, who will have no upgrade path at all come next week. So, now IS a good time for them, but could be the worst possible time for anyone with a later version...