charlesphoto99 Posted March 6, 2011 Share #261 Posted March 6, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) And no reason M video couldn't be used by pros in the field. Put the backup body to use recording audio, or put it on a stick to record an overall scene while shooting stills with the main body, and/or film interviews in the field, etc etc. You need that backup body along anyway.... And as Peter says zooming is rarely used by cinematographers and was left behind as an artifact of the 70's. They may use zoom lenses for expedience purposes but limit themselves to one focal length per shot. If they need to move the camera it's almost always done by track or steadicam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Hi charlesphoto99, Take a look here Video mode on future M . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
swamiji Posted March 6, 2011 Share #262 Posted March 6, 2011 That means we should discount the photo used in this thread as an example of how DSLRs are used professionally, because he was using a zoom? Sorry, but every video camera I have used, prosumer and up had a zoom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 6, 2011 Share #263 Posted March 6, 2011 That means we should discount the photo used in this thread as an example of how DSLRs are used professionally, because he was using a zoom? Sorry, but every video camera I have used, prosumer and up had a zoom. I think you miss Charles' point. The $100k-250k Sony cameras that are used since George Lucas introduced video movies, they mostly use big anamorphic cine lenses and they are primes. Video shot with pro cameras for television news or other stuff like that use zooms, of course, I can't see our local news ambulance chasing reporters using that rig in the picture in this thread. I doubt the market for the 5DII is those guys. We are talking about making movies with great primes. And, by the way, shallow DOF is used as a cinematographers way to express what he wants. Can't be done with those video cameras you are talking about. You guys can dis the over-use of shallow DOF, but that is one of the big draws of the 5DII. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted March 6, 2011 Share #264 Posted March 6, 2011 So you are suggesting Leica is to provide a crane with each M10 so it will seem less gimmicky? You realize if the M10 ships with video, this forum will get a lot of "my M10 cannot zoom an I paid $10,000 for it, Canon and Nikon has better video for less because they can zoom. Our response will have to be did George Lucas use zoom? This is silly, and zoom is really needed to be competitive, in the video market place Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 6, 2011 Share #265 Posted March 6, 2011 So you are suggesting Leica is to provide a crane with each M10 so it will seem less gimmicky? You realize if the M10 ships with video, this forum will get a lot of "my M10 cannot zoom an I paid $10,000 for it, Canon and Nikon has better video for less because they can zoom. Our response will have to be did George Lucas use zoom? This is silly, and zoom is really needed to be competitive, in the video market place Ok, now you are just running out of salient arguments. And, if you want to hang your last defendable point on lack of zooms, then Leica could make one if it ever comes to that. Leica M10 would make a killer B-camera for some studio and if it out-put RAW it could be an A-camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted March 6, 2011 Share #266 Posted March 6, 2011 If this unlikely camera came to pass, the extra processing power to match the output of two different types of camera would be unwarranted, easier to adapt an R lens or buy a set of C mount lenses to existing equipment. Thinking of power, this camera would need an entirely new External power supply, new shutter as well. Other than the viewfinder, everything else would need to be redesigned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 6, 2011 Share #267 Posted March 6, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) If this unlikely camera came to pass, the extra processing power to match the output of two different types of camera would be unwarranted, easier to adapt an R lens or buy a set of C mount lenses to existing equipment. Thinking of power, this camera would need an entirely new External power supply, new shutter as well. Other than the viewfinder, everything else would need to be redesigned. Come on, live view and some software and hardware upgrade is what is needed. PAS output video. External power is a must and that would be from the cottage industry that has sprung up to support this stuff. To argue that it wouldn't be good or it can't be done is not where you should be coming from. I'd argue your first point that people wouldn't embrace Leica as long as Canon is in the game because, among other reasons, they could just put the awesome R-glass on the Canon and roll. I'd still like the feature if they do it. It was pretty fun to play with when I had the 5DII. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted March 6, 2011 Share #268 Posted March 6, 2011 Ok... With live view where is your light Meter? How much power does it take to keep your shutter open? My battery drops even when I do a quick cleaning. Live view needs a new sensor, processor, data bus, power managment. Sounds like an entire overhaul to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted March 6, 2011 Share #269 Posted March 6, 2011 But if live view works, swap out the viewfinder with an electronic one and you have the rumored "R" replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 6, 2011 Share #270 Posted March 6, 2011 [...] I can't see how one would adapt Leica M lenses to use follow focus controls. A separate line of video lenses may make sense. I can mostly see video in an M maybe for casual use by photojournalists or hobbyists. A live-view camera would not be a rangefinder, would it? IOW, not an M. Regarding lenses, I posted months ago a follow-focus adaption of a 35mm Summilux, and it is even easier for the 75mm Summilux. Google "follow-focus rig" to see a lot of adaptions of conventional still-camera lenses. But for video, I'd go wit the Panasonic. Imagine the fun of using the Voigtlander 25mm F/.95, and some Leica lenses for long work. (Most video is shot using longish lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted March 6, 2011 Share #271 Posted March 6, 2011 True, but with your shutter open. The light meter is gone, power is still being used by the shutter, etc. Etc. People think switch the chip and magic. Even without live view, it's a major redesign, to add live view or evil would be easy after that. It's ok to dream, but there is some reality that must temper out expectations Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted March 6, 2011 Share #272 Posted March 6, 2011 That means we should discount the photo used in this thread as an example of how DSLRs are used professionally, because he was using a zoom? Sorry, but every video camera I have used, prosumer and up had a zoom. I shot a small feature film on Super 16 (Arri) a few years back and while I mostly used a set of Zeiss primes, on occasion we reverted to a zoom because of time constraints so the director could see a number of different looks quickly. It wasn't so we could "zoooom" into the action, it was so we could see what the scene looked like with a 50 compared to a 35 compared to a 28, etc very quickly without swapping lenses. Later one could tell the quality was less but it was what the director wanted. Of course Leica would have a lot of technical hoops to hurdle to implement video in the M10 as you say, but lack of zoom isn't even in the picture because everyone knows that the M has no zoom lenses, so the same people not buying it now for that reason would still not buy it. So that is a moot point. And I don't see anybody buying the M expressly for shooting feature film/video, it would just be a nice add on, and maybe an interesting B-roll camera for a video/film shoot and for more photo journalistic applications. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 6, 2011 Share #273 Posted March 6, 2011 ...People think switch the chip and magic... Yeah, we are all just a bunch of idiots and dreamers. I'll try my best to blunder forward into the future. You can live in the past with your M-dogma. Dare to dream and see magic, Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 6, 2011 Share #274 Posted March 6, 2011 True, but with your shutter open. The light meter is gone, power is still being used by the shutter, etc. Etc. People think switch the chip and magic. Even without live view, it's a major redesign, to add live view or evil would be easy after that. It's ok to dream, but there is some reality that must temper out expectations The light meter is not gone. And you get a live histogram too. Significant power is not necessarily being used by the shutter to keep it open. Many current cameras can shoot video for quite a while using a fairly small battery. In any case, don't you realize that this technology has been around for some time in many brands of cameras and is well proven? If Leica can get a suitable chip and electronics, (a big if) I'm sure they'll figure out how to implement it. I can't say if this is high on Leica's priorities and I tend to agree that video may not be a major selling point in a new model. But live view would open up a lot of additional possibilities for the M. And live view and video go together. (It is pretty unlikely to get one without the other.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted March 7, 2011 Share #275 Posted March 7, 2011 So those red lights in the vewfinder mean nothing for video. Either we have live view or we don't. This is the kind of logic that makes Video on a Rangefinder a gimmick. A me too, but only half way implemented solution. That is not Leica. It is easer to deign a new camera than it is to retrofit new technology in old. Especially for a small company. I would look for a parallel camera than a M with video. But I would not hold my breath for either. Check next time you clean your sensor, see how much battery is used. Then estimate how much battery an hour of video would use, just keeping the shutter open... Then we can how small a battery we can get away with, maybe tiny, just like the D3x battery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted March 7, 2011 Share #276 Posted March 7, 2011 Yeah, we are all just a bunch of idiots and dreamers. I'll try my best to blunder forward into the future. You can live in the past with your M-dogma. Dare to dream and see magic, Rick Its this M-dogma that has kept Leica alive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdtaylor Posted March 7, 2011 Share #277 Posted March 7, 2011 Through all of this I keep coming back to Bill's proposition (way to many pages ago to quote)- Why force all of this into a M rangefinder?- is it not better suited to the S series, or forbid, the R series. Yes, video on an M would be nice, and I have no problem with it- just don't mess up what we have at this point. Blunt, but to the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted March 7, 2011 Share #278 Posted March 7, 2011 Through all of this I keep coming back to Bill's proposition (way to many pages ago to quote)- Why force all of this into a M rangefinder?- is it not better suited to the S series, or forbid, the R series. Yes, video on an M would be nice, and I have no problem with it- just don't mess up what we have at this point. Blunt, but to the point. Terry, Agreed, that's the working assumption. Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted March 7, 2011 Share #279 Posted March 7, 2011 Through all of this I keep coming back to Bill's proposition (way to many pages ago to quote)- Why force all of this into a M rangefinder?- is it not better suited to the S series, or forbid, the R series. Yes, video on an M would be nice, and I have no problem with it- just don't mess up what we have at this point. Blunt, but to the point. I just do not see technically how it would function on an M with out messing it up. Dreaming and generalities are all well and good. But the devil is in the details, and there are just to many red flags on this one. Video on S and R great, makes sense. To many issues on the M to make it work with out messing it up, unless you want a M10X? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 7, 2011 Share #280 Posted March 7, 2011 I just do not see technically how it would function on an M with out messing it up. Dreaming and generalities are all well and good. But the devil is in the details, and there are just to many red flags on this one. Video on S and R great, makes sense. To many issues on the M to make it work with out messing it up, unless you want a M10X? Sorry to be blunt, but nothing you say here makes sense to me. There are plenty of cameras that are smaller than the M that have live view and can shoot video. What the heck does "messing it up" mean? In the M, they took a mechanical camera design and made it into a digital camera. So that is a much greater change than will be necessary to simply add live view and video mode to the digital M form factor. (Getting the required sensor and electronics are another story.) In the 5DII, Canon added live view, video, increased resolution, and quite a few improvements to the 5D without altering the design. And they improved battery performance too. Are you saying you feel that Leica is incapable of updating their cameras periodically? Regardless of what features may be added to the next M, I can't see them bothering to introduce a new model unless they add all new electronics and probably a new sensor. (Every new digital cameras seems to have a new sensor.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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