james_h Posted November 1, 2008 Share #261 Posted November 1, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) d00d, are you on drugs ? Banking software??? come on lol, there's nothing special about it, and simple a choice of IT. both worlds work. Science and education is Apple's territory Engineering control apps yes, but Apple is catching up, at least with the big players. 3D rendering??? and CAD? unix/linux You are using a 10yrs old OS. You are exactly the representative those by now famous pc-mac adds show. Do the switch and you will know what you were missing. Nothing special I know but BACS software is AFAIK PC only... 3d rendering is not 3D design We are not talking about linux/unix ... Mac or PC !!!! At the end of the day there are commercial entities that provide software in PC only format and while ever you have a requirement for their software Apple is not an option. Furthermore why should I make compromises on my choice of software just to use Apple. If you landed on Earth from Mars and you given a choice of computers. Option A where you have to pay for your upgrades. To make the hit easier they even give it a name. The hardware and to a greater extent the software are controlled by one company and it's their way or the highway. Option B where they offer updates on a weekly basis ( least said about this the better !) The hardware and software are relatively independant of each other, competition has driven prices down and generated innovation. The OS might be 10 years old but it works fine for me & many others and that's what counts. My brother uses Macs and he rants about OS X. He still keeps a machine with OS 9 because his experience is that OS X is unreliable !!! He thinks Jobs sold out to the ipod generation of home mac users. At the end of the day a computer is a means of getting something done. From A to B. Just as for your choice of transport you choose whatever fits your journey. Anyway I'm off to take some pics. R9 or M8 ... any thoughts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 Hi james_h, Take a look here POLL: Mac or PC . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted November 1, 2008 Share #262 Posted November 1, 2008 Option A where you have to pay for your upgrades. To make the hit easier they even give it a name. The hardware and to a greater extent the software are controlled by one company and it's their way or the highway.Option B where they offer updates on a weekly basis... To be fair this is the buisiness model both companies use. The upgrade from XP had a name - 'Vista' and you had to pay for it. The same will apply to the replacement for Vista which is currently doing the rounds in the form of an early beta. Also to be fair, the hardware is largely controlled by Apple. This can be a good or a bad thing depending on your point of view. The bad aspect is of course that there's a limited amount of hardware available out side of USB and Firewire devices. The good news is that the OS doesn't have to worry to the same extent about what hardware is going to be attached. At the end of the day both OSs are excellent and something we could only have dreamed of 20 years ago. If only OS has the software you need then it seems obvious that's the one to use. I was about to right that I don't understand these OS war debates, but I think I do - or at least partly, We all invest emotionally in the things we buy whether they be a camera, a car, or in this case an operating system. If you're happy with what you have isn;t that the end of the story. Being happy isn't the same as being blinkered though. I confess I made the switch to Mac a few months ago. Personally I haven't regretted it and what little software that I need that runs under Windows I run using the VMWare Fusion emulation package. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_h Posted November 1, 2008 Share #263 Posted November 1, 2008 Steve Have you found any windows software that wouldn't run on the emulation package...? I would love to switch but I can't gamble on losing the use of some of my software. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted November 1, 2008 Share #264 Posted November 1, 2008 Steve Have you found any windows software that wouldn't run on the emulation package...? I would love to switch but I can't gamble on losing the use of some of my software. Jim What I really don't understand is why people think switching to a Mac from a PC is going to make there work any easier. They are both computers and without input from the user they do absolutely nothing. That input is the same whichever OS you are using. And the Mac uses the same exact hardware used in a PC although Apple charges more for it. One big reason I use a Win PC is simply I have software that will not run on a Mac and there is no equivalent for some of it, let alone the cost of all new software. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mampito Posted November 1, 2008 Share #265 Posted November 1, 2008 MacBook Pro 15" 2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, Pantone Huey Pro Cheers Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted November 1, 2008 Share #266 Posted November 1, 2008 Nothing special I know but BACS software is AFAIK PC only...3d rendering is not 3D design We are not talking about linux/unix ... Mac or PC !!!! At the end of the day there are commercial entities that provide software in PC only format and while ever you have a requirement for their software Apple is not an option. Furthermore why should I make compromises on my choice of software just to use Apple. If you landed on Earth from Mars and you given a choice of computers. Option A where you have to pay for your upgrades. To make the hit easier they even give it a name. The hardware and to a greater extent the software are controlled by one company and it's their way or the highway. Option B where they offer updates on a weekly basis ( least said about this the better !) The hardware and software are relatively independant of each other, competition has driven prices down and generated innovation. The OS might be 10 years old but it works fine for me & many others and that's what counts. My brother uses Macs and he rants about OS X. He still keeps a machine with OS 9 because his experience is that OS X is unreliable !!! He thinks Jobs sold out to the ipod generation of home mac users. At the end of the day a computer is a means of getting something done. From A to B. Just as for your choice of transport you choose whatever fits your journey. Anyway I'm off to take some pics. R9 or M8 ... any thoughts Every large organization is offering it's mac OSX flavor for it's platform, and if they dont they will, as soon as Apple's market share grows for whatever reason. Both platforms now use the same chips, so marketwise its just stupid for any company to ban Apple from its s/w products. I dunno about Mars, but If I was responsible for IT development on my organization, I would choose the safe way: this means one company that controls everything is far a better option than many manufacturers with questionable support/warranty. Prices is the next big issue as well, because the boss is paying, he has the wallet, but for the IT pro things are quite easy actually. Besides, I haven't ever heard of large Corps. to upgrade their PCs, plus there is no reason to: most are used like modern typewriters. Even if your VMware dont support that particular s/w (higly unlike), you can always boot and then you have a PC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 1, 2008 Share #267 Posted November 1, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Have you found any windows software that wouldn't run on the emulation package...?I would love to switch but I can't gamble on losing the use of some of my software No, but to be fair I haven't tried a great deal with it. I bought the package in case I needed to load some old software, So far the only package I've spent much time with is Microsoft Frontpage, and that appears to run perfectly. One other thing to remember is that the emulation software doesn't come with a copy of the actual OS, so that has to be bought as well. Luckily I had a (legitimate) copy of XP lying around. Fusion also allows you to run Linux if that's of any interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted November 1, 2008 Share #268 Posted November 1, 2008 Dell Inspiron i8200, 2 Latitudes C610's, Dimension XXX, old dell that has been ruinning for 3 years straight 24/7 and was 3 years old when I bought it, built Asus P4 2.8 OC'ed to 3.2, built Asus C2Duo 2.4 OC'ed to 3.3 all running XP Pro of one SP or another. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 1, 2008 Share #269 Posted November 1, 2008 ...although Apple charges more for it. I'm not so sure that's always true if you compare machines of similar specs. When the UK magazine PC Pro reviewed the Mac Pro I think it came out cheaper than the same specced machine from a Windows supplier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_h Posted November 1, 2008 Share #270 Posted November 1, 2008 Even if your VMware dont support that particular s/w (higly unlike), you can always boot and then you have a PC. Do you mean the option of dual boot,which is possible on the latest mac's ..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 1, 2008 Share #271 Posted November 1, 2008 Do you mean the option of dual boot,which is possible on the latest mac's ..? No, with Fusion - as with Parallels which is the other emulation package commonly available - you run both operating systems at the same time. Fusion is a Mac application you run as you would any other application on the Mac, and it loads Windows. Bootcamp on the other hand is the Apple supplied package. With Bootcamp you have to shut down the Mac OS and re-boot into Windows. That means you can't run the two systems at the same time as you can with Fusion and Parallels Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_h Posted November 1, 2008 Share #272 Posted November 1, 2008 Thanks Steve, Bootcamp was the option I recall reading about. I presume it runs as any other XP pc would, now macs use intel chips..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 1, 2008 Share #273 Posted November 1, 2008 James yes, previous emulation software had to do a lot of work translating between Intel and Motorola/Power PC instructions. This is a lot easier now that Macs are built using Intel hardware. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
haris Posted November 1, 2008 Share #274 Posted November 1, 2008 I would love to have MAC, but it is too expencive. PC, AMD 1,9 processor nVidia chipset, 512MB RAM, 80GB SATA HDD, nVidia Gforce VIVO graphic card, CRT 17", 3 years old system and enough for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted November 1, 2008 Share #275 Posted November 1, 2008 Do you mean the option of dual boot,which is possible on the latest mac's ..? Yes james. With every new Mac and Leopard OSX, you also get the option of choosing what to boot. This is often called "native" boot and in this case you simply have a normal PC, only with the quality of Apple and Apple drivers in an Apple machine. That is, a large company guarantees your everyday tasks, instead of something built out of anything, and with unknown compatibility. You still have to supply the Win OS whichever is the case. This is called : Bootcamp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mampito Posted November 1, 2008 Share #276 Posted November 1, 2008 Alan, as a long time UNIX / NEXTSTEP and PC User who uses a Mac now at home every day and a Windows PC at work, I can hardly understand your points. I try to answer them. Most come from you expecting windows behaviour and contributing "not like my windows laptop as" "unintuitive". Maybe the windows way IS the way your mind works, then you are a rare species, mind you ;-) 1. Not an issue for me. I have a MacBook Pro. And maybe different hands? ;-) Maybe personal taste. 2. the trackpad is excellent!! I used (and still use!) windows trackpads and their functionality of having a side area with different functions (scrolling) always annoyed me because the scrolling often happens by accident. Without reading, that windows laptop functionality is also not understood - so not Apple specific I find myself using two fingers on my windows laptop all the time ;-) 3. OS X has the dock that shows which programs are running (the little dot) If you want to skip through them, use apple-tab. where is the "issue" here? I think you are just plain ignorant here, sorry. Also expose is excellent, better than anything on windows IMO. 4. My mbp has them - where is the problem? In nearly all programs you can also hit space and shift space to achieve this 5. home: apple-page up. End: apple-pagedown. My MBP has a delete key. But not insert. I never understood why insert was needed. I place my cursor anyway and write. Full stop 6. Every time I connect ANY camera on my Mac, two things happen: 1. It shows in the finder as a card/harddisk. 2. iPhoto / Lightroom open. Most people having windows were amazed when switching to the mac. 7. can't say anything about this. But this point is correct: iTunes is tuned for iPods and this is VERY closed IMHO. You are right to critize this. 8. Maybe the Mac was just respecting the user rights you gave that drive on the PC? If you have different users on the PC and the Mac, this will be respected - not everyone can write everything 9. I find renaming easier on the Mac for one reason: Text behaviour is the same everywhere: Double click marks the word (space, dot or commas separating), triple click marks the text to the next return. 10. apple-shift-t brings up the type panel - change the type to whatever size (the text that is marked at the time). You do not have this key shortcut on the PC systemwide 11. OK. 12. My MBP is fine with ports. In my card slot I have a card reader. 13. never had a problem with this. Maybe your Mac screwed up? All in all I think you just confuse your year long adoption with "ease of use". But if you personally prefer windows, that is fine. I worked for a long time with UNIX, DOS, WINDOWS, NEXTSTEP, LINUX and now OS X, and I must say the latter is THE one for me. There ARE issues, but mostly not the ones you pointed at. I think you would need "translation" of your habit into mac habits. Most newbies are better of with a Mac. All the best, if you should ever have a mac again, feel free to contact me for establishing "new habits" to adapt you way of working on the mac. All the best Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinetar Posted November 1, 2008 Share #277 Posted November 1, 2008 My first Mac was a G4 400, then G4 Dual 1 gig and the latest being a G5 dual 2.7 with oem liquid cooling. I still us the G4 400 with Apple Classic 9.2 OS for Quicktime Virtual Reality 360's. Since the software was never updated. I set up a friends business with 3 imacs; Parallels and one with a 32" TV for displaying iPhoto samples of his products. The main lcd runs windows XP with a terminal program to emulate a Wyse terminal for placing orders. Another, takes pics of each order and is shot with a Nikon D60 and Apple Automator (a scripting tool) to simplify the emailing of the images. The process is to just type the invoice #, press (run) and the image is automatically taken from a tripod and sent to a server. Next. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 1, 2008 Share #278 Posted November 1, 2008 3. OS X has the dock that shows which programs are running (the little dot) If you want to skip through them, use apple-tab. where is the "issue" here? I think you are just plain ignorant here, sorry. Also expose is excellent, better than anything on windows IMO. That was my point, you only see which programs are running when you click on this or something else. I thought Expose was nice, but if I simply want to switch between two programs I can just click between them on the Windows status bar. 5. home: apple-page up. End: apple-pagedown. My MBP has a delete key. But not insert. I never understood why insert was needed. I place my cursor anyway and write. Full stop The MacBook does not have page up and page down keys. 6. Every time I connect ANY camera on my Mac, two things happen: 1. It shows in the finder as a card/harddisk. 2. iPhoto / Lightroom open. Most people having windows were amazed when switching to the mac. That is what I expected it to do. But the camera wouldn't show on this computer except in iPhoto. Can you tell me why not and what is the solution? 8. Maybe the Mac was just respecting the user rights you gave that drive on the PC? If you have different users on the PC and the Mac, this will be respected - not everyone can write everything There were no user rights on the fw drive. 9. I find renaming easier on the Mac for one reason: Text behaviour is the same everywhere: Double click marks the word (space, dot or commas separating), triple click marks the text to the next return. I couldn't figure out how to rename an Alias. Is there a way? Some programs I tried let me see a list of documents but would not allow me to rename or delete them. I had to go to the Finder to do file maintenance. 10. apple-shift-t brings up the type panel - change the type to whatever size (the text that is marked at the time). You do not have this key shortcut on the PC systemwide I didn't know about this and was simply following the menu in the simple text editor. I had to repeatedly go to the menu and select "make larger" or something like that, several times until the text was the size I wanted. I am sure Macs would be real easy for me if I learned all of the shortcuts and fast key combinations. That was my point. It is not so easy for a new user. Yes, I learned the one for Del and some others. I found Wordstar on CPM to be easy too once I memorized all of the commands. 12. My MBP is fine with ports. In my card slot I have a card reader. How does the fact that you are happy with the ports on a MBP help someone who needs specific ports on a smaller laptop? I don't believe I was writing about a MBP. Isn't that only available with a 15" and larger screen? The MacBook has no card slot. It also only has stereo sound output (best I know,) not digital S/PDIF sound input and output. Am I wrong about this? The new ones have no Firewire and no card slot. So having a small Apple laptop is out of the question if you need one of these two features. I have a 12inch Windows laptop with the ports I mentioned. One of my cameras tethers via FW, the other via USB. Sometimes I have both connected along with a HD or two. I have a fast Cardbus64 CF reader in the PC slot and the computer has an SD slot built in. There is no small Mac that can do this. I photograph architecture on location and carry two small laptops with me. One is a tiny 10 inch screen Acer tablet/convertible. The other was made to order and has a special 12 inch screen that is viewable in bright light and sunlight - I don't want to carry large computers. Apple simply does not address my needs on this. --------------- All in all I think you just confuse your year long adoption with "ease of use". I am not sure what this statement means. Another thing. There was data and programs on the MacBook that were imported from an Emac and a G4 laptop when the computer was upgraded. These could not be run due to them not being compatible with the OS Intel chip combo. I think I got a message that said something like "Classic is not supported on this machine." On the Emac (which had OSX installed,) when I clicked on these programs, it seemed to reboot them under OS 9 and the programs ran. So when this stuff was migrated to a new Intel machine, a lot of programs were lost and I am not sure if the data was still available to use under something else (Unless I updated the software.) What is with this loss of a compatibility mode? I know that lots of people can get lots done with either system. I am just saying that spending a lot of time with the MacBook did not give me any desire to pursue it or the Mac OS any further. But going in I had expected to be impressed and I was not. I also was not happy to find out that the $99 ProCare service upgrade on the machine was sold to the person and not the computer and thus was not transferable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mampito Posted November 2, 2008 Share #279 Posted November 2, 2008 Alan, thanks for replying. When I was writing my last comments, I had my family in the back (wife and two kids) wanting me to hurry up. Probably not the best setting, so sorry if some wordings were harsh or too short.. 3. OS X has the dock that shows which programs are running (the little dot)If you want to skip through them, use apple-tab. where is the "issue" here? I think you are just plain ignorant here, sorry. Also expose is excellent, better than anything on windows IMO. That was my point, you only see which programs are running when you click on this or something else. I thought Expose was nice, but if I simply want to switch between two programs I can just click between them on the Windows status bar. Hm. I still do not understand your point completely. Windows has the status bar, OS X has the dock. You can click in each system on one icon of the status bar / dock to go to that respective program. Is there something I am missing completely? (I am still on XP at work) My dock in OS X is set up to show all the time, so I can see what is running and what is not. 5. home: apple-page up. End: apple-pagedown. My MBP has a delete key. But not insert. I never understood why insert was needed. I place my cursor anyway and write. Full stop The MacBook does not have page up and page down keys. Maybe I was thinking of a different MB? Because the last and the current ones have: MacBook Keyboard on Flickr - Photo Sharing! 6. Every time I connect ANY camera on my Mac, two things happen: 1. It shows in the finder as a card/harddisk. 2. iPhoto / Lightroom open. Most people having windows were amazed when switching to the mac. That is what I expected it to do. But the camera wouldn't show on this computer except in iPhoto. Can you tell me why not and what is the solution? Alan, good question as I did not have the problem... I searched the net and found that only cameras that are able to act as "mass storage" can do it. So if the camera has this option (look under USB options), then it should. Devices in OS X - Mac Forums If everything is like it should and it still does not work- then I don't know and you are probably right to bash OSX for it. 8. Maybe the Mac was just respecting the user rights you gave that drive on the PC? If you have different users on the PC and the Mac, this will be respected - not everyone can write everything There were no user rights on the fw drive. OK, then another point to you :-) I do know some older Macs had problems with USB (how old was the MB?), maybe that is part of it. 9. I find renaming easier on the Mac for one reason: Text behaviour is the same everywhere: Double click marks the word (space, dot or commas separating), triple click marks the text to the next return. I couldn't figure out how to rename an Alias. Is there a way? Some programs I tried let me see a list of documents but would not allow me to rename or delete them. I had to go to the Finder to do file maintenance. Hm, you mean an alias pointing to another file in the finder? Just click in the name and rename it. Just tried it a second ago. But maybe I just misunderstood. (ASCII is so difficult for communication sometimes). The finder IS the place in OS X to do file maintenance. You cannot do it in the "Save" or "open" panel. This is logical to me, but probably not to you as a windows user. On the mac, for example, you can have an "open" panel, drag a file from the finder or desktop into it, and this file is not copied into that directory, but instead the open panel changes directory that file's location. Very different concepts. 10. apple-shift-t brings up the type panel - change the type to whatever size (the text that is marked at the time). You do not have this key shortcut on the PC systemwide I didn't know about this and was simply following the menu in the simple text editor. I had to repeatedly go to the menu and select "make larger" or something like that, several times until the text was the size I wanted. I am sure Macs would be real easy for me if I learned all of the shortcuts and fast key combinations. That was my point. It is not so easy for a new user. Yes, I learned the one for Del and some others. I found Wordstar on CPM to be easy too once I memorized all of the commands. I made a mistake: apple-t is the shortcut. At least it works in all "new" apps. (like the system standard text editor "TextEdit") The good thing on the mac is that ALL programs use the same shortcuts and they are printed next to the menu item in the dropdown menu. So this should be very intuitive. Things like minimizing a window (apple-m), closing the window (apple-w), closing the app (apple-q) have also shortcuts which work in all programs. 12. My MBP is fine with ports. In my card slot I have a card reader. How does the fact that you are happy with the ports on a MBP help someone who needs specific ports on a smaller laptop? I don't believe I was writing about a MBP. Isn't that only available with a 15" and larger screen? The MacBook has no card slot. It also only has stereo sound output (best I know,) not digital S/PDIF sound input and output. Am I wrong about this? The last ones had digital S/PDIF sound input and output (as I do not the age/type of MB you had, I do not know about yours). But they were hidden inside the standard stereo plugs. With special cables this could be used (and still can be used). This was well documented and a very elegant solution IMO. --------------- All in all I think you just confuse your year long adoption with "ease of use". I am not sure what this statement means. It just meant that in some cases your year long training in windows made you blind for several obvious things that newbies on a computer would not have trouble with. But some points were completely correct, as stated above. Another thing. There was data and programs on the MacBook that were imported from an Emac and a G4 laptop when the computer was upgraded. These could not be run due to them not being compatible with the OS Intel chip combo. I think I got a message that said something like "Classic is not supported on this machine." What is with this loss of a compatibility mode? Well, this sounds quite messed up then (migrating twice to a new Mac with very old legacy stuff carried over). There were some programs on your computer in the need of OS 9 to run in OS X in the emulation environment ("classic") I got rid of OS 9 on my computer as fast as I could, I was never friend of the old Mac OS. Programs hat to be slightly reprogrammed to run without the OS 9 emulation ("classic") on the newer OS X. So you just had very old stuff on the MB. I know that lots of people can get lots done with either system. I am just saying that spending a lot of time with the MacBook did not give me any desire to pursue it or the Mac OS any further. But going in I had expected to be impressed and I was not. OK, then it's a question of taste and full stop. I never get used to NOKIA mobile phones but am perfectly at ease with SonyEricsson.. :-) That's just how I am ticking, not a question what is better. All the best Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted November 2, 2008 Share #280 Posted November 2, 2008 I never get used to NOKIA mobile phones but am perfectly at ease with SonyEricsson.. :-) Martin Martin, Just try the iPhone… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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