Two weeks with the camera and two operational problems

[Cirrus]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I've shot about 600 frames with the X1 over the past few weeks, mostly "street" work, zone focused at F8, with both DNG/JPG and S. Fine JPEG settings. Since I shoot BW, I am finding the JPEGS really excellent in prints at 16 x 20 inches and not finding much need for the DNGS except for the occasional highlight recovery. The dynamic range of the camera is really excellent, even with the JPEGs and, as noted by others, the ISO 3200 performance is terrific. The dynamic range and and high ISO performance make the the M8 and M8.2 cameras I've been using for several years more or less superfluous. I normally shoot with a 28 on the M,s and that's just what I've got with the X1. The auto focus is something I've never used on any camera, so I'm not bothered by the X! in this regard.

 

The two problems however are quite serious for me and I'm afraid they're ruining a wonderful camera. The first is that in zone focusing, the focus wheel is much too easy to hit accidentally--and it turns very easily. So I need to constantly hit the focus button to see if the setting has moved. This is a hardware problem that probably can't be fixed unless Leica can add something in the software to lock this in. This setting also resets to infinity if the camera goes to sleep or is turned off. So that really needs to be corrected too.

 

The second problem, which I haven't heard anyone mention is that when the screen powers off--which is after one minute at most--there is a very significant delay before the camera can be fired, almost two seconds. This is not the sleep mode, it is just the screen powering down. This means that when walking with the camera, one must constantly touch the shutter button to keep the screen lit, at least once a minute. Has no one else noticed this and found it a problem? The M8 requires this touch on the shutter button when it has gone into sleep mode, but that can be set to a much longer interval.

 

Any thoughts on these issues? This camera is so close to being really, really good. I thing people forget how radical this camera is in terms of image quality vs. physical bulk. It is the beginning of a new dawn in pocket cameras.

 

Thanks,

Dan

[NZDavid]

Having not used the X1 (not available here yet), I can't comment specifically, however based on other digital cameras, e.g. my Ricoh GR-D, fiddly nudgable settings are commonplace and there's damn all you can do about it.

 

Can you turn off the LCD altogether and shoot using an optical viewfinder?

[damnsharp]

Hi Dan,

I think that when Leica is willing, they can easily update the Auto LCD Off function from 30s + 1 minute with another choice e.g. 10 minutes. (like Auto Power Off)

Because I also use a VF I often have the LCD off by default.

 

On my X1 it takes a blink of an eye to see the LCD again when I press the shutter button. Odd that it takes longer time in your case.

 

I place my thumb under the setting wheel so I don't have the problem I hit it.

 

Indeed it's a pity the MF setting goes back to infinity. It was easier the camera remembered this.

[thomsva]

The first is that in zone focusing, the focus wheel is much too easy to hit accidentally--and it turns very easily. So I need to constantly hit the focus button to see if the setting has moved. This is a hardware problem that probably can't be fixed unless Leica can add something in the software to lock this in. This setting also resets to infinity if the camera goes to sleep or is turned off. So that really needs to be corrected too.

 

Yes, this is really annoying. My suggestion for the next firmware would be a focus lock by enabling the manual focus wheel only while halfpressing the shutter release or while pressing the focusbutton on the left.

[Infinite]

Dan,

 

1) Focus wheel. I use the hand grip which minimize the problem, at least for me!

2) Setting resets to infinity. When stand by mode is set to 10 minutes it is OK to me, but agree it needs to be corrected.

3) Screen powers off. Can be disabled, see manual page 93 (Monitor time out mode)

[Cirrus]

Thanks folks. I tried disabling the screen, because I also use a finder, but after one minute something else is going to sleep (the sensor itself?) and the shutter release delay is still there. It's a second or second and a half -- way too long. I do hope Leica is serious about correcting problems with software. It would be a shame to let this really good camera die with these little problems.

Dan

[Cirrus]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Dan,

 

1) Focus wheel. I use the hand grip which minimize the problem, at least for me!

2) Setting resets to infinity. When stand by mode is set to 10 minutes it is OK to me, but agree it needs to be corrected.

3) Screen powers off. Can be disabled, see manual page 93 (Monitor time out mode)

 

 

I looked at p.93 and found this:

 

"Monitor Timeout Mode

If, active, this function switches the monitor off after the selected time. This not only saves power, but also ensures quicker readyness when the camera is activated again."

 

So when I go to this setting, the only options are 30 seconds and 1 minute--no possibility of inactivating it. And how having this on increases camera readiness is beyond me. Am I missing something here?

Dan

[eduardoho]

The time delay settings for LCD to my understanding is to turn on/off the electrical supply to the LCD monitor and thus a power savings feature. By the way if you have noticed, this cute babe got a voracious battery appetite. But it has no bearing on the refresh rate of the image's capture ability of X1's CMOS sensor. Whether you shorten or lengthen the time delay factor, the ability of CMOS sensor to be ready to capture next sequential image is functionally limited to processor speed, and to Leica internal spec's parameters (which I am sure is a closely guarded secret) with respect to electronic circuitry and this may not be fixable with a firmware update. Leica designer's paramount concern is the IQ, nothing else is of matter to them, if we have to wait for another 100, 1000, 10,000 or 100,000 milliseconds for the second shot... so be it, provided that the image captured is nevertheless flawless...In continuous mode, the IQ is sacrificed since you are capturing multiple images, and the settings are locked out, but the assumption is that one of them is bound to be perfect (w/auto bracketing on?)...welcome to the eccentric world of Leica.

[Cirrus]

One good thing I just discovered--the setting for external viewfinder starts the camera up in screen-off mode. But you can not only turn it on with any setting button (temporarily), you can turn it on with the info button (permanently, but with 1 minute cancellation). So the "external viewfinder on" setting just adds the dark screen as the fourth possibility to the three other possibilities on the info button (data, no data, leveling lines) This doesn't take care of the delay problem because it's not just the screen that's shutting down after 1 minute. I think it is also the sensor that's shutting down.

Dan

[grober]

Yup, it's slow.

 

But I'm finding that slowing down is not all bad. Once I took a master class with Ralph Gibson. Watching him compose and shoot, I learned the value of slowing down to consider before "snapping" the shutter.

 

The X1 is definetely not a street shooter in the M tradition but I'm learning to adapt.

 

-g

[NZDavid]

Both problems illustrate the overcomplexity inherent in most modern technology. I really like the design concept of this camera with its manual shutter and aperture dials, which are so like the classic purity of the M cameras, but it's the software side that seems to let the camera down. Workarounds just hide basic flaws. The best place way to manually focus a lens is by rotating the lens barrel, not via a software setting and a dial on the back of the camera. Indeed, older film cameras avoided having very many controls at all on the back plate -- just too easy to nudge. The Minilux had a manual control setting on top of the aperture dial, which may have been better. The X1 looks to be a camera designed primarily for AF not MF.

 

As for ways to prevent the camera shutting down too quickly and being slow to fire up again, rather than discovering fiddly multiple options buried on page 94 of the manual as a possible fix, it's up to Leica to make it perform faster!

 

Even so, I still think that for a digital compact, the X1 design looks to be the simplest and most straightforward on the market today. It doesn't follow the crowd, and I think that's positive.

[jackart]

Yup, it's slow.

 

But I'm finding that slowing down is not all bad. Once I took a master class with Ralph Gibson. Watching him compose and shoot, I learned the value of slowing down to consider before "snapping" the shutter.

 

The X1 is definetely not a street shooter in the M tradition but I'm learning to adapt.

 

-g

 

In most cases like portrait and landscape You may have time. But in true reportage and street, what should be Leica's cup of tea, there isn't (time).

 

-Jaak

[jsrockit]

But in true reportage and street, what should be Leica's cup of tea, there isn't (time).

 

Then pick a different tool for the job.

[Cirrus]

Then pick a different tool for the job.

 

 

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect Leica to product this relatively expensive camera to the operational standards of any number of other point-and-shoot cameras in terms of speed and function. So I hope that comments like yours don't encourage them to ignore what they could actually correct in the software. The camera has many virtues and it would be nice to get what can be got out of it.

Dan

[jsrockit]

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect Leica to product this relatively expensive camera to the operational standards of any number of other point-and-shoot cameras in terms of speed and function.

 

They did exactly this... the GF-1 (and similar panasonics) are faster and the Ricoh has better MF... outside of this, there are not many P&S size cameras that are faster. Now, how many P&S size cameras have a APS-C sensor? How many have dedicated shutter speed and aperture dials? How many don't have convoluted menus?

 

I'm not saying the camera is perfect, and yes, Leica could have done better with the available technology. but as a user... I can say that it is not the piece of shit that people are making it out to be.

[Cirrus]

I don't think I made it out to be anything, much less a POS. But I have used true "pocket" Canons and Ricohs that (with both cameras shooting JPEG only) are much faster shot to shot, write to cards faster, don't have the screen blanking between shots, don't have the screen-off/restart delay and don't have the odd screen smearing with movement that this camera has. So I would expect this camera, in these regards, to be up to the standard of those inexpensive cameras. I don't think the size of the sensor, the exposure control knobs or the menu design have anything to do with this. I am hoping, because I like the camera, that Leica can correct these problems in software. I hope they will. Otherwise it seems almost a boutique camera to me.

Dan

[jsrockit]

I don't think the size of the sensor, the exposure control knobs or the menu design have anything to do with this.

 

It doesn't have anything to do with the shortcomings of the X1, but I was pointing out that these things are what I consider the pluses of the X1... and the reason I bought it. I'll deal with the other shortcomings.

 

Otherwise it seems almost a boutique camera to me.

 

Well, in all fairness... it is isn't it?

[diogenis]

Leica needs to rethink the AF/MF software approach on this camera and fix it with a firmware release. And for those that want to use it manually, they need to fix it with a better magnifying area, use large apertures for accuracy while MF, a more detailed, accurate and dof showing distance window, and maybe a ratio on that wheel, which one has to turn it for eternity to move. I wonder how Dan manages to use this for zonefocusing.

As for #2, well that's easy to be fixed.

[eduardoho]

According to 2009 year end report to the Board of Management for Leica Camera AG, Rudolf Spiller stated that out of the declined market, 86% went to export, out of this 36% of Leica went to Asian market, primarily for Japanese buyers, HK Chinese, Singapore Chinese and then mainland PRC Chinese; about 21% went to buyers in US, Canada and Mexico and the remaining tiny 14% were realized by the European market. I am a X1 end user, and I fit in the segment of the onslaught of new owners of Leica cameras. I am very fond of my X1 and I applaud the strategy of Leica in launching this awesome camera. I believe that the X1 was launched with this in mind, and it did hit its intended targeted market. I am not interested in a clinical analysis of the X1's technical minutia, but rather interested to share real life reportage situations with fellow X1 end users. Even at max'ed out ISO of 3200, the inherent noise is second to none far exceeding DSLR's. Bokeh/DOF/OOF are kept reasonably to levels in par with full sized DSLR's. Of course at 2K price tag, it would be nice to have included within the scope of delivery an AC mains, carrying case, adjustable strap & spare battery. Instead they invested in useless packaging, and Owner's manuals in different languages, why can't it be provided in DVD, in pdf format with active videos? The fragility of the body camera is a valid concern, as well as lack of protective sapphire crystal for the Elamarit lens, and why not a sapphire crystal LCD screen too? A firmware upgrade may not resolve all of the so called wish list to be satisfied, remember that IQ must be maintained at sacrifice of something else, i.e. to meet the algorithm for the outstanding IQ, then something else has to be paired down. I do not know of any other branded camera with such IQ as the the X1. And please do not equate nor compare the X1 to M series, they are animals of different breed, both are purebred nevertheless. X1 was never to be replacement for M, but rather to compliment it. So I do share the view of one of the previous post, that X1 is not a mediocre camera at all, but rather a vivacious babe with its own spicy character worthy of respect. I am an end user, and I am having a helluva of good time with my X1.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Cirrus]

Leica needs to rethink the AF/MF software approach on this camera and fix it with a firmware release. And for those that want to use it manually, they need to fix it with a better magnifying area, use large apertures for accuracy while MF, a more detailed, accurate and dof showing distance window, and maybe a ratio on that wheel, which one has to turn it for eternity to move. I wonder how Dan manages to use this for zonefocusing.

As for #2, well that's easy to be fixed.

 

Diogenis-

I normally leave the camera in MF. When it powers up, it is at infinity. The wheel rotates quickly left to most used distances (it is only slow, for better resolution, below two meters). The index also jumps, kind of click like. So from infinity, one click left is 8 meters, two is five meters, three is three meters and then there's a two meter mark you can go to. So after a little experience with the camera I find this pretty easy. You learn which click between the two meter mark and the infinity mark is what. The manual focus is only awkward with very close distances. Then I use the AF as a rangefinder. Down arrow twice/touch shutter button/down arrow three times/touch shutter button. That sequence locks in a setting on manual. I got use to this after a while. But they do need to make the scale more detailed, it would be easier.

Dan