Film break during rewind

[Tim B]

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Whilst rewinding film in my M6ttl the other day the rewind crank slipped as the pressure increased near the end of the rewind, as often happens to me on this camera. I continued to wind and the crank became very hard to turn before freeing up and rewind completed. On removing the film I discovered that it had snapped a couple of frames in from the leader which was left behind in the take up chamber.

 

I've never had this happen before in ten years of using film Ms and wonder what happened.

 

Is it possible that when the crank slipped out of my grip the rewind lever somehow got reset, thus locking the sprocket wheels in thier usual wind on (rather than rewind) direction?

 

Any ideas?

 

Tim

[Xmas]

Yes that is possible.

 

The mechanism is more likely to be tear unless the camera was in low ambient temperature conditions, was it cold?

 

Make sure there are no pieces of film left any where inside camera, inspect the rails the shutter runs in with dental mirror, it only takes one piece to lodge and you need a repair.

 

Noel

[Tim B]

Thanks, Noel.

 

It was fairly cold, about 5-6C, but nothing exceptional.

 

The feeling was like trying to rewind without having set the rewind lever, but, of course, I knew I had set it since I had rewound most of the film. It never ocurred to me that it unset itself (i.e. return to normal) without my taking the baseplate off.

 

But if the sudden release of pressure due to my grip on the crank slipping can cause a reset, then I will be mindful of this in the future. Strange that it has never happened to me before since it is not unusual for my grip to slip near the end of the rewind process.

 

I spent about ten minutes with a blower brush and careful examination of the inside of the camera and the shutter and the lens chamber before reloading. There was some dust and tiny pieces of film in there.

 

I reflect that, although much slower, the rewind on my recently acquired MP is smoother and unslippable. I'm no longer entirely sure that I prefer the M6 (and M4 on) angled rewind crank to the MP type.

 

Thanks again,

 

Tim

[Xmas]

A long time at -6 to -7C might have been to long for film, if you do have small particles that could indicate it shattered, as it does when it is too cold.

 

The loading diagram on the baseplate is for cold days, during warm days you are supposed to take the film through the petals to the other side of winding on chamber.

 

It is easy to un-latch the rewind latch e.g. it may not have latched properly in the cold, you may have moved the wind on lever sufficiently or nudged the rewind lever.

 

Even with modern lubricants their life is not unlimited e.g. taking the camera in from cold to central heating e.g. coffee shoppe can cause internal condensation and that can prompt the grease to butter, over time.

 

The M4 style lever requires deliberate winding especially when there is lots of film in the cassette (at the end of wind on) and the 'leverage' is high thereby, suggest you need to be more or very deliberate. The old nob is difficult to beat, there is only a problem on very early M3s, when you need to be careful.

 

Noel

[Tim B]

Thanks, Noel, for your constructive and comprehensive advice.

 

All this hopping in and out of cafes and bars on a cold day is obviously doing me more good than the M6!

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

[earleygallery]

...e.g. coffee shoppe...

 

not to mention a lense shoppe!! Gadzooks!!

[Xmas]

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Thanks, Noel, for your constructive and comprehensive advice.

 

All this hopping in and out of cafes and bars on a cold day is obviously doing me more good than the M6!

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

 

Bars will help the camera shake you may get from coffee shoppee excess.

 

Noel

[Tim B]

not to mention a lense shoppe!! Gadzooks!!

 

James, I did actually find a "lense shoppe", the only proper photo shop I found in Bruges, but apart from an interesting selection of Nikon gear, old and new, it was totally digital. No sign of film. The only film I saw for sale was in a tourist shop and it was Kodak Gold or nothing. Luckily I had my own supply - I never rely on finding film when I am travelling.

 

They also had an interesting display of wedding photos - of couples in the nude! Belgian weddings must be something else!

 

On reflection I cannot recall another occasion when I have had a film break in the camera in about 50 yrs (yikes! - but I did start very young) of using film.

 

Tim

[H. James Wolf]

I have two M6ttls, a .85 and a .58, and both have exhibited this problem. It's not a problem I've had with either the classic M6s, M7, or MP. It seems to be a regular thing with these cameras and does not seem to be dependent on outside temperatures - I've had it happen at subfreezing temperatures and in fine summer weather. Eventually, I'll send both off for CLAs and hope that fixes it. In the meantime, they sit in a cabinet.

[rleffingwell]

I also have these bodies. I have learned to grasp the camera during rewind so I also hold down the release. It's a bit awkward at first but it becomes second nature. I only vaguely remember the M4, M3 and M2 cameras I had a long time ago, but it does seem that the M6TTL is prone to film-windup so that the rewind crank slips from your hands. I think perhaps the angled crank has something to do with it. I fitted those after-market slip-on cranks to my 3s and 2s decades ago and because that knob (with its larger diameter shaft) rose straight up from the body, it delivered the rewind torque more cleanly?

[newsgrunt]

friend with an M6 ttl had this problem. Ended up being the rewind lever was loose (some play if jiggled) and just needed to tighten up the screw.

[DeanSilliman]

I got bitten by this just this weekend. I had a finished roll of XP2 Super in my M6 TTL and had just started rewinding when the crank slipped out of my fingers. I restarted the rewind and the pressure had only started to increase when the film detached from the roll. I had not heard about this issue involving the rewind lever moving. Now I realize that when the rewind crank slips out there is a chance that the rewind lever will need to be reactivated.

 

Anyway, now I have a full roll of XP2 in the camera, detached and on the take-up spool. It's nothing special (shots of the kids in the park as an XP2 test) and I'll have to decide if I want to try to save it. Why couldn't it have been TriX so I could just get it into the developer on my own?

 

Dean