MarkM6 Posted December 17, 2006 Share #41 Posted December 17, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't feel quite right if I don't ask a dumb question everyday: What's MRC mean? Thanks, Mitchell Multi Refractive Coating? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 Hi MarkM6, Take a look here New M8 Not good news... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest leicawanabe Posted December 17, 2006 Share #42 Posted December 17, 2006 According to the poster, no correction to these images. Just a picture with and without the Heliopan. http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31693 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevenrk Posted December 17, 2006 Share #43 Posted December 17, 2006 According to the poster, no correction to these images. Just a picture with and without the Heliopan. http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31693 The shot I posted has no post processing, just converted to sRGB, cropped, reduced size and saved to jpeg for the web. And the strap is completely black. Let me know if you'd like me to send you the original DNG. Hard to reconcile this result with the one Jorge posted of the kitchen. It could be that it just happens that the particular IR that he happened to capture were of a type not as IR sensitive as my camera strap. You can also see some IR contamination in the inside of the lens shade. Mine is again with the current Heliopan IR digital filter. I'm not aware of a full IR cut Heliopan filter, but maybe Jorge was able to purchase a Heliopan that is designed to cut the full IR spectrum like the BW 486. I would have been happy to find that the Heliopan did remove all IR, because it is a much less noticeable filter (from the perspective of the visible/noticeable intensity of the reflection). But it simply does not. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/11480-new-m8-not-good-news/?do=findComment&comment=120364'>More sharing options...
harmsr Posted December 17, 2006 Share #44 Posted December 17, 2006 Steven, You may want to email Jorge or post of RFF to insure that you are both using the same Heliopan filter. The first Heliopan filter which he received did not work. The second type of Heliopan filter is the one that he stated worked. He also used it to duplicate the type of shot that is flaring for me with the B+W 486 filters and found no flare. (As a qualifier - it appears that my B+W 486 filters are NOT marked MRC). Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevenrk Posted December 17, 2006 Share #45 Posted December 17, 2006 Steven, You may want to email Jorge or post of RFF to insure that you are both using the same Heliopan filter. The first Heliopan filter which he received did not work. The second type of Heliopan filter is the one that he stated worked. He also used it to duplicate the type of shot that is flaring for me with the B+W 486 filters and found no flare. (As a qualifier - it appears that my B+W 486 filters are NOT marked MRC). Ray Thanks Ray. I did post this on RF, and although Jorge never responded directly, my impression is that we are using the same filter. I'm using: Heliopan 52mm Digital Glass Filter I own several of them (for use with other digital equipment) and they are designed to reduce IR, not eliminate it. They are effective, and only produce a very mild off center pale magenta reflection -- as opposed to the much sharper/brighter magenta/burgundy reflection of the 486s. I am not aware of another IR reducing Heliopan. Mine were all purchased from B&H within the last year. Interesting FYI is that these use to be a regularly stocked item at B&H, and now -- I guess because of the M8 -- are a special order item (which I believe means in part no return/refund). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchell Posted December 17, 2006 Share #46 Posted December 17, 2006 I'm not sure this helps. But, I bought a Heliopan filter that says "Digital UV/IR" on it. The following are two sets of shots with filter on, and off, inside and outside, shot at the camera store with my M8 to see if it worked before I bought it. After that I shot with the filter on all the time and didn't have any magenta problems, but I did no more further testing, nor did I try to create problems with magenta or flare. My M8 is at Solms now so I can't do any further testing. An odd note, when I tried to save for Web in PS3, the program warmed up the color, and in the filtered shot indoors the jacket started to go back towards magenta. Probably like Steven said, not all the magenta is cut. These were shot raw, processed in PS, cropped and resized for the forum. Nothing else was done to them. There is at least one black jacket the same in filtered and unfiltered shots. Best, Mitchell Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! . Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! . ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/11480-new-m8-not-good-news/?do=findComment&comment=120615'>More sharing options...
MarkM6 Posted December 17, 2006 Share #47 Posted December 17, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) An odd note, when I tried to save for Web in PS3... Why do you do that? I would change the image into 8-Bit and save as JPEG so your image retains all the color adjustments. Just a thought... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchell Posted December 17, 2006 Share #48 Posted December 17, 2006 Mark, That's what I ended up doing. I didn't realize Save For Web does those other things. I thought it was just a convenient way to size precisely. Mitchell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted December 19, 2006 Share #49 Posted December 19, 2006 Rex, You are exactly correct. My issue with this is that I believe Leica is selecting the WRONG filter. Here is a thread by Jorge Torralba who tried to duplicate a shot that I did, which created the flair. My shot flared when using the B+W filters. His did NOT when using the Heliopan filters. http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33137 I am concerned that the Heliopan filter may be a much better option and that Leica is choosing the B+W filter. I am also bothered that Phase One will probably work on a profile for the B+W filter when the Heliopan may be the correct answer. Ray Ray I am using the Heliopan Digital filter (77mm) with the Photo Equip step up system so one 77mm filter covers all my lenses with the step up rings. I have seen most of the magenta cast issues disappear using this system so I am currently happy. Some on these threads have said the Heliopans are not strong enough. I won't disagree because I can't find a B+W 486 77mm to do the proper testing. I will keep my orders in place until I get one, but if anyone has a 77mm B+ W 486 filter they would be willing to loan for a couple of days for me to complete my tests we can put this issue to bed once and for all. Best Woody Spedden Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevenrk Posted December 19, 2006 Share #50 Posted December 19, 2006 I'm not sure this helps. But, I bought a Heliopan filter that says "Digital UV/IR" on it. The following are two sets of shots with filter on, and off, inside and outside, shot at the camera store with my M8 to see if it worked before I bought it. After that I shot with the filter on all the time and didn't have any magenta problems, but I did no more further testing, nor did I try to create problems with magenta or flare. My M8 is at Solms now so I can't do any further testing. An odd note, when I tried to save for Web in PS3, the program warmed up the color, and in the filtered shot indoors the jacket started to go back towards magenta. Probably like Steven said, not all the magenta is cut. These were shot raw, processed in PS, cropped and resized for the forum. Nothing else was done to them. There is at least one black jacket the same in filtered and unfiltered shots. Best, Mitchell Mitchell, very interesting. Clearly IR is a strange beast. In terms of determining what has strong IR reflections and what does not. There must be a logic to it, but since you can't see it, hard to pin down. And that's Leica's problem really, because they've opened a pandora's box that no one quite knows how to deal with consistently. Who knows, but maybe this particular camera strap's fabric has strong IR reflections, where the black fabrics in your shots do not. Or maybe it's something else entirely. For reference for those interested, here is the same strap taken under identical lighting conditions for the two M8 shots, using strobe flash heads and WB set to flash, with the 50 summilux and no filter, then again the shot I posted earlier with the 28 elmarit and Heliopan Digital IR/UV filter, and then tonight with an Olympus point and shoot and the camera's built in flash and auto WB and exposure (what the strap's color actually looks like -- jet black). The two M8 shots were DNGs with conversion in C1 using the M8 profile with no adjustments, and in PS just converted to sRGB and then cropped and size reduced for the web. The Olympus was shot in jpg, and in PS just cropped and reduced in size for the web. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/11480-new-m8-not-good-news/?do=findComment&comment=121612'>More sharing options...
Guest stevenrk Posted December 19, 2006 Share #51 Posted December 19, 2006 Would anyone who has the BW 486 and the Heliopan be willing to put up three shots of the same thing with no filter, Heliopan, BW? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted December 19, 2006 Share #52 Posted December 19, 2006 Would anyone who has the BW 486 and the Heliopan be willing to put up three shots of the same thing with no filter, Heliopan, BW? Or would anyone with an extra B+W be willing to loan one to someone with a Heliopan? Or vesa versa Rex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted December 19, 2006 Share #53 Posted December 19, 2006 Mitchell, very interesting. Clearly IR is a strange beast. In terms of determining what has strong IR reflections and what does not. There must be a logic to it, but since you can't see it, hard to pin down. And that's Leica's problem really, because they've opened a pandora's box that no one quite knows how to deal with consistently. Steven, One thing everyone needs to know is that regardless of IR contamination, the original M8 profile in C1 shouldn't be used as anything but a curiousity. It shifts blacks to magenta all on its own in my experience, with no help from IR. Even a CC-based PM5 generated profile renders blacks "blacker" than that dumb original profile. Please use my Chrome profile and desaturate to taste. At least in that profile, blacks are actually neutral Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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