blovitch Posted December 16, 2006 Share #1 Posted December 16, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just back from a mamoth day of shooting.. My new M8 (1.09) has green blobs at high iso, will upload images later. Also had two lockups, one of which happened after 25 shots the other after another 50. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Hi blovitch, Take a look here New M8 Not good news... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted December 16, 2006 Share #2 Posted December 16, 2006 Send the pictures to Leica, they need to know... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicaM8freak Posted December 16, 2006 Share #3 Posted December 16, 2006 Well, after all my draw backs I was hoping on, and basicaly trusting that I would get the perfect camera...(after the upgrade, somewhere next week) doesn't. seem to be that way? Tim....bring on the pain!!!!!!!! (or post the pics) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blovitch Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share #4 Posted December 16, 2006 Crop from an image in a church... Green blobs are inverted and shifted "reflection" from candelabra. Also black vertical line of pixels. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/11480-new-m8-not-good-news/?do=findComment&comment=119778'>More sharing options...
blovitch Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share #5 Posted December 16, 2006 Another crop Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/11480-new-m8-not-good-news/?do=findComment&comment=119780'>More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted December 16, 2006 Share #6 Posted December 16, 2006 My Canon 85/1.2 does the same thing. Chandeliers play havoic with it and inverted hot points appear at the bottom of the image just like your example. I'm pretty sure it is caused by using a filter in certain conditions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted December 16, 2006 Share #7 Posted December 16, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) So V 1.09, not 1.10? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atufte Posted December 16, 2006 Share #8 Posted December 16, 2006 I also have a M8 with fw 1.09 from the new batch, it makes some "blobs" once in a while but no big problem, but i did some testing and found it's a reflection from the filter in front of the lens, no "blobs" without the filter.... (the exact same problem when use of a filter with my R-D1...) Best Regards Alexander Tufte http://www.alexandertufte.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted December 16, 2006 Share #9 Posted December 16, 2006 The green blob problem, as we've come to understand it, is a ghost image positioned in the lateral mirror image, same height, within the full frame. Doesn't look to me like these are "green blobs". Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted December 16, 2006 Share #10 Posted December 16, 2006 The green blobs aren't inverted, either. JC Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canlogic Posted December 16, 2006 Share #11 Posted December 16, 2006 First image looks like a reflection in some sort of glass? 2nd looks like a reflection in the paint? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted December 16, 2006 Share #12 Posted December 16, 2006 The green blob problem, as we've come to understand it, is a ghost image positioned in the lateral mirror image, same height, within the full frame. Doesn't look to me like these are "green blobs". These are not "green blobs" . These are probably reflections from the back of the IR filter. Unfortunately, one of the problems associated with using any filter is a reflection of bright sources of light off the back of the filter down into the lens and thence to the sensor. This happens especially with on-axis light sources. I can reproduce this at will with any camera, digital or not. The effect is much worse with a filter that is not coated on the back side. Is the IR filter that you are using coated on the side facing the lens? Rex Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmsr Posted December 17, 2006 Share #13 Posted December 17, 2006 My 1.09 is also flaring with ghost images with the filters. Now this is going to be a problem if we have to use filters to avoid IR issues. Lower light shooting with light sources in the photo still don't work. This used to be the strong point of the M. I am using B+W 486 filters. In a phone conversation with Jorge Torralba today, he is not seeing the flaring from the filters. However, is using the Heliopan IR cut filter. This concerns me as Leica is supposedly using the B+W filter, so I would assume that Phase One is working on a camera profile with the B+W filter. I am waiting on the Heliopan filter to try myself, but the files which Jorge had did not flare where mine with the B+W 486 filters did under the same conditions. Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted December 17, 2006 Share #14 Posted December 17, 2006 Tim-- The results are ugly, but as others have said, what you have here are optical phenomena, not electrical. What lens? And were you using a lens hood? As I'm sure you know, hoods become more important the more light sources around, and much more important when using a filter. But be sure to talk to Leica about the camera hanging up. --HC Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmsr Posted December 17, 2006 Share #15 Posted December 17, 2006 HC, Mine were with any of my lenses. 28 Cron (coded), 35 Lux (coded), 50 Lux (coded), 75 Cron (black pen coded), 28-35-50 Tri-Elmar (black pen coded) - Lens detection enabled B+W 486 UV/IR cut filters I always use a lens hood. If the light source is bright and within the frame, these filters flared. I will be taking some night christmas light shots tonight to see what happens. Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted December 17, 2006 Share #16 Posted December 17, 2006 My 1.09 is also flaring with ghost images with the filters. Now this is going to be a problem if we have to use filters to avoid IR issues. Lower light shooting with light sources in the photo still don't work. This used to be the strong point of the M. I am using B+W 486 filters. In a phone conversation with Jorge Torralba today, he is not seeing the flaring from the filters. However, is using the Heliopan IR cut filter. This concerns me as Leica is supposedly using the B+W filter, so I would assume that Phase One is working on a camera profile with the B+W filter. I am waiting on the Heliopan filter to try myself, but the files which Jorge had did not flare where mine with the B+W 486 filters did under the same conditions. Ray Ray A few years ago I did a lot of testing with regards to the use of filters with digital cameras. The jist of it was, the only real problem was that the digital sensor, being much more reflective than film, would tend to reflect back very bright on-axis rays thru the lens, which would be reflected back by the FLAT side of the filter, into the lens (for the second time) which would form a double image. The unique charcteristic of this double image "flair" is that the images are the same size as the originals and are NOT inverted. Plus they are bilaterally symmetrical to a defined line thru the center of the frame (not normally a 0 degree angle). This sounds complicated, but I can spot the effect immediately. And I can produce it at will. This was my big reservation about filters on the M8. But, let me just say that ultimately it was not a deal killer for me. First of all, a good filter with anti-reflection coatins on the lens side reduces the problem a lot. Secondly, it doesn't happen that often anyway. The situation where it does happen normally doesn't require a filter anyway. Do you really care if a black sweater turns a little purple in a night shot with a lot of bare blown out light bulbs staring you in the face? Lastly, people who have routinely used "protective" filters, have had to deal with this issue all along and have never noticed it or denied it. I kind of resent being forced to use filters but its not all that bad. Rex Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmsr Posted December 17, 2006 Share #17 Posted December 17, 2006 Rex, You are exactly correct. My issue with this is that I believe Leica is selecting the WRONG filter. Here is a thread by Jorge Torralba who tried to duplicate a shot that I did, which created the flair. My shot flared when using the B+W filters. His did NOT when using the Heliopan filters. http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33137 I am concerned that the Heliopan filter may be a much better option and that Leica is choosing the B+W filter. I am also bothered that Phase One will probably work on a profile for the B+W filter when the Heliopan may be the correct answer. Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted December 17, 2006 Share #18 Posted December 17, 2006 Rex, You are exactly correct. My issue with this is that I believe Leica is selecting the WRONG filter. Here is a thread by Jorge Torralba who tried to duplicate a shot that I did, which created the flair. My shot flared when using the B+W filters. His did NOT when using the Heliopan filters. http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33137 I am concerned that the Heliopan filter may be a much better option and that Leica is choosing the B+W filter. I am also bothered that Phase One will probably work on a profile for the B+W filter when the Heliopan may be the correct answer. Ray Ray I know I'm correct because I did conclusive test about a year ago with coated, uncoated, and no filters. No filter was the best of course. But the multicoated Heliopan filter wasn't too bad. But keep in mind that B+W filters DO come multicoated. But they also come non-coated and, from the static on the net. come coated on one side only, the wrong side included! Keep in mind for the coating to work on internal reflections it has to be on the side facing the lens. Really the non-reflective coating should be on BOTH sides. And the IR coating should be on the ouside. That the way the Heliopan filters are. If your filter is coated on the wrong side, try turning it around as an experiment. And are you sure your filter is multicoated at all? Rex Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmsr Posted December 17, 2006 Share #19 Posted December 17, 2006 Rex, Here is a photo of the filters that I have. These were the only part numbers from B+W that I found in the 486 filters, except for the difference of slim with no front filter, or the silver mount variation. I did not find any specification for MRC or no MRC. Do you know for sure if these are or are not MRC and on which side? Ray Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/11480-new-m8-not-good-news/?do=findComment&comment=119876'>More sharing options...
shk331 Posted December 17, 2006 Share #20 Posted December 17, 2006 Rex, Here is a photo of the filters that I have. These were the only part numbers from B+W that I found in the 486 filters, except for the difference of slim with no front filter, or the silver mount variation. I did not find any specification for MRC or no MRC. Do you know for sure if these are or are not MRC and on which side? Ray As far as I know from the B+W handbook the 486 is not an MRC filter. Here is the link: Schneider Optics Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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