test from germany

[ilgelato]

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Im Test: Leica S2 | photoscala

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[gogopix]

really strange conclusions; the IQ is clearly superior to film and D3x and yet says NOT in Hassey class?

 

D3x was obviously rezed up too, no?

 

His point that the handling is superior is interesting; in some threads here the grip was criticized!

 

Chacun a son gout!

(or should I say here; Jeder nach seinem Geschmack)

 

There's another phrase in english "there is no accounting for taste!"

 

Victor

[tashley]

really strange conclusions; the IQ is clearly superior to film and D3x and yet says NOT in Hassey class?

 

D3x was obviously rezed up too, no?

 

His point that the handling is superior is interesting; in some threads here the grip was criticized!

 

Chacun a son gout!

(or should I say here; Jeder nach seinem Geschmack)

 

There's another phrase in english "there is no accounting for taste!"

 

Victor

 

Hi Victor,

 

My read (and my German is really very very very bad so I used it and Google translate) was that he says it has nothing to improve on the Hassy class in terms of IQ, which is probably fair though I am not a Hassy user. The Nikon shot was upresed, probably to 200%, which means it would be creaking at the seams for a large print whereas any MF shot would obviously still have its doubling in reserve.

 

An interesting question AFAI am concerned is: assume you use a D3x and have IS. You take your shot. Then you take an S2 (or P1, Hassy, Leaf whatever 40mp-ish) shot without IS (and with lens so as to give similar FOV) and that has a 1 or 2 px blur because that's how it worked out.

 

Then you upres a very sharp D3x shot to 400% for a large print, and upres the others by 200% to make about the same print size.

 

Which will look better?

 

In other words, does IS give you, effectively, extra resolution for all those shots where you didn't have a tripod or whatever?

 

Hmmm.

[marknorton]

Nikon did themselves a great disservice by releasing that 50mm f1.4 with a mineral filled plastic barrel mass produced in China. At less than 1/10 of the cost of the Leica Summarit lens hand made in Solms (and trying to be 1.5 stops faster as well), it's hardly likely to bear comparison.

 

That's the problem with the D3x; there's hardly any glass good enough to do it justice. Nevertheless, the S2 results look very good.

[gogopix]

well, I guess what struck me is he says that S2 doesnt stand out from the competition, but then compares to the next tier down with D3x and IdsII. Sorry, I thought he meant Hasselblad DOES stand out -guess he was just giving an example of who he think S2 competition is. In that sense, he is actually favorably conclusing without the kind of direct comparison say Reichman (orJack/Guy) did with the Phase backs.

 

In all was favorable again, but too much emphasis on the cost and 'doesnt stand out' therefore maybe not so great. He does give it what many people do-great credit for handling. As a travel photographer, and PJ and mostly handheld wildlife and cityscape (haven't done much landscape per se except some really good opportunity in Chamonix/Courmayeur area.)

 

Well, I'll see in May when I hope to take S2 to Ireland for some touring and trekking (Galway/conamara then south swing thru Cork and Waterford area.)

 

Keep snappin'! :-)

 

BTW, any word on the other lenses? would like something wider than 70mm. Also, I saw in the test a CS lens!! There's hope (but I really don't need-would buy just as investment.)

 

best regards

Victor

[tashley]

well, I guess what struck me is he says that S2 doesnt stand out from the competition, but then compares to the next tier down with D3x and IdsII. Sorry, I thought he meant Hasselblad DOES stand out -guess he was just giving an example of who he think S2 competition is. In that sense, he is actually favorably conclusing without the kind of direct comparison say Reichman (orJack/Guy) did with the Phase backs.

 

In all was favorable again, but too much emphasis on the cost and 'doesnt stand out' therefore maybe not so great. He does give it what many people do-great credit for handling. As a travel photographer, and PJ and mostly handheld wildlife and cityscape (haven't done much landscape per se except some really good opportunity in Chamonix/Courmayeur area.)

 

Well, I'll see in May when I hope to take S2 to Ireland for some touring and trekking (Galway/conamara then south swing thru Cork and Waterford area.)

 

Keep snappin'! :-)

 

BTW, any word on the other lenses? would like something wider than 70mm. Also, I saw in the test a CS lens!! There's hope (but I really don't need-would buy just as investment.)

 

best regards

Victor

 

 

Victor, I would expect the 35 and 120 macro by the end of Q1 2010, along with CS versions of the 70 and 180. Others by announcement thereafter. Those are the bets I effectively placed in buying into the system.

 

As for IQ, we're probably talking angels on pinheads here but I am satisfied that the S2, ISO per ISO, is slightly better than the P45+ noise wise and for my money it slightly better holds shadow details too but I have not tested this in a lab and it could be down to mild differences in real ISO, exposure, profiling etc. I would also expect the S2 to be very comparable to a P40 excluding higher ISO binned but hey, until DXO has finished with all this stuff, we won't know the exact number of angels on the pins..

 

In the meantime it's about teething, handling, form factor and quality and character of glass on the one hand versus system breadth and flexibility on the other, all adjusted for cost. To me that adds up to a very personal decision with no rights or wrongs and frankly, with the quality all these systems deliver, it's a lucky time to be snappin'...

 

Best

 

T

[gogopix]

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Victor, I...

 

As for IQ, we're probably talking angels on pinheads here but I am satisfied that the S2, ISO per ISO, is slightly better than the P45+ noise wise and for my money it slightly better holds shadow details too but I have not tested this in a lab and it could be down to mild differences in real ISO, exposure, profiling etc. I would also expect the S2 to be very comparable to a P40 excluding higher ISO binned but hey, until DXO has finished with all this stuff, we won't know the exact number of angels on the pins..

 

T

 

Thx, that's good news on the lenses. Likely take NON CS to europe.

 

The IQ is same as Michael Reichman observed in the video. Frankly, shadow detail can be important esp if you don't want to go fiddling with the shadow/hlites in PS or C1. I suspect Leica has a point of view on color and balance as well as sharpening that seems to make DMR, M8/9 and now S2 behave with more photographically pleasing results (Digilux and now X1 seem to have as well.

 

And I like it as do others, but not all..

 

as for feel, we'll see what happens when I get it into these arthritic, pianistic hands !

[AlanG]

 

An interesting question AFAI am concerned is: assume you use a D3x and have IS. You take your shot. Then you take an S2 (or P1, Hassy, Leaf whatever 40mp-ish) shot without IS (and with lens so as to give similar FOV) and that has a 1 or 2 px blur because that's how it worked out.

 

Then you upres a very sharp D3x shot to 400% for a large print, and upres the others by 200% to make about the same print size.

 

Which will look better?

 

In other words, does IS give you, effectively, extra resolution for all those shots where you didn't have a tripod or whatever?

 

Hmmm.

 

IS could make a difference but it is only one aspect of getting the most detail out of any camera. In my experience using MF gear, one has to have pretty good overall conditions to get the most out of it - steady camera, accurate focus, mirror lockup, high shutter speed, or use flash, etc. In a test of a Phase 65+ back and 28mm Mamiya lens vs. 5DII and 16-35 zoom, the Phase only had a bit more resolution - I'd say about 50% more, not double the amount... which is not as significant an amount as you think when you consider that you can only achieve this with a careful setup. (I plan to re-test using my 17 TSE when I get a chance.) Consider that to double resolution from 21 megapixels, you need 84 megapixels assuming the lens can deliver the resolution.

 

When I tested the P65+ system I found that when I rezzed down the images to 21 megapixels, they had a bit more detail than the Canon shots. But overall I didn't think the P65+ and 28mm lens was a big enough improvement over the 5D and zoom to be worth it to me. The 17 TSE came about a month after I tested this and should be a bit better. But the real advantage to me is the movements I have with my shift lenses on the Canon. (And I don't want to use an MF wide angle camera and have to shoot color calibration images.)

 

As for shooting with IS, I see it making a big difference for hand held shots at lower shutter speeds. I did this shot at ISO 3200 with a 400mm lens at 1/8th second. I shot a series of photos at this shutter speed including shots of our pets and I had very little motion blur on any of them. If I had more light and used a lower ISO, I'd probably have a bit more detail. But I wanted to see my capabilities in low light. And this is a close-up shot with very shallow depth of field.

 

It is unlikely this is the kind of picture one would do with most MF cameras, so I can't even really picture the S2 being a better choice than 35mm for anything but tripod, or electronic flash use, unless you have a pretty high shutter speed, steady hands and nail the focus.

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