M9 Ultimate Sensor Cleaning Device

[Guest WPalank]

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Hi William- nice to see another good use for the scope besides finding calcified canals. I posted a similar thread at dpreview last March and it's amazing and scary just how much junk you can see under magnification. I found what worked best for me was carefully using compressed air to blow the dust around (and hopefully out) the the Sensor Swabs with Eclipse 2 solution. You'll miss a good meeting in San Diego this April.

 

carcam,

I knew I couldn't be the first although I've been thinking about it for years. I just didn't want to be a bother to my former partners or any buddies (my luck , one of those expensive bulbs will blow while I'm using it).

 

Where you able to take any pictures or screengrabs? Do you have a link to your dpreview thread?

 

Compressed air is an interesting idea since you can actually visualize what you are doing with it. Did you find the bulb blowers as useless as I did?

 

BTW, I was at my former teaching establishment last week and had a sit down with Alan Gluskin. He says he's on the board for if not the head of the San Diego meeting. As I keep all my credentials and licensure active, you never know?!

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[vanhulsenbeek]

.................

 

I actually like the sticky effect of the pentax/sensorVU thingie, it feels better on the sensor, however so far the dust aid platinum is better of getting out to the corners of the sensor.

 

....................

 

.

 

 

Bo!

 

Am delighted you posted the Dust Aid Platinum. I just discussed the little Leica Factory video on Luminous Landscape with my dealer, and he is interested too.

 

We just wondered though if this technique is not causing the IR screen on the sensor to break in the corners . I must say the Dust Aid Platinum video is very thorough in showing how to handle the thingy, and if done well, it should not break the glass.

[Guest WPalank]

Bo!

 

 

We just wondered though if this technique is not causing the IR screen on the sensor to break in the corners .

 

That's exactly the point I brought up when someone posted a thread asking what that device was! That woman (and I'm sure she was using it exactly as she was trained) was really hammering that thing pretty hard.

 

Here's the thread:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/99091-m8-sensor-dust-remover-sticky-wand.html

[k-hawinkler]

1.0 for the initial cleaning, then I cranked it up to 2.5 for the smaller specs.

At 2.5 my field of view was slightly larger than 1/4-1/3 of the sensor surface to give you an idea. But the real plus in the equation is the amount of light you can get exactly where you want.

 

William,

 

Many thanks. Your feedback - relatively modest magnification is needed but requires the ability to focus the right amount of light exactly at the right spot during cleaning - suggests the following question:

 

What viewing device would be optimal for cleaning sensors, taking both functionality and cost into account?

 

Thanks again, k-hawinkler

[Guest WPalank]

K,

Good question. I've never used the visible dust sensor loupe so I can't speak from experience.

VisibleDust - Product Page

 

But I would have to trust scc's comments earlier in the thread as it seems a viable alternative. Cost of an operating microscope $12,500- $20,000 whereas the sensor loupe goes for about $90.

 

But to me the critical part of the equation is getting the light in there. I've used a surgical fiber optic light mounted to a plastic head band with surgical loupes with great success (again not an economical solution). So even having a wife or partner hold a flashlight while you concentrate would be a better solution to an overhead ceiling light. I just don't know the short answer.

[gpleica]

William,

 

Thanks in advance for trying out the Dust Aid Platinum product under your microscope. This is the method that the Leica technician at their NJ headquarters recommended to me when I brought my M9 into the shop a week after I bought it back in Nov. because of severe dust issues on the sensor. They cleaned it and said to use the Dust Aid Platinum product for the exact reasons that have been mentioned here: it lifts the dust off, leaves no residue (hopefully!!! - you'll tell us on this one) and it can get into the corners. We await your results.

 

Basic question - which corner of the sensor when looking straight into the camera corresponds with which corner of the finished print? Knowing this would be helpful when trying to remove dust.

 

Geoffrey

Milford, PA

[vanhulsenbeek]

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................Basic question - which corner of the sensor when looking straight into the camera corresponds with which corner of the finished print? Knowing this would be helpful when trying to remove dust...........

 

 

Basic indeed ... go back to camera obscura times..............

 

Upper right in picture > bottom left in sensor - when looking at the camera:rolleyes:

[diogenis]

K,

Good question. I've never used the visible dust sensor loupe so I can't speak from experience.

VisibleDust - Product Page

 

But I would have to trust scc's comments earlier in the thread as it seems a viable alternative. Cost of an operating microscope $12,500- $20,000 whereas the sensor loupe goes for about $90.

 

But to me the critical part of the equation is getting the light in there. I've used a surgical fiber optic light mounted to a plastic head band with surgical loupes with great success (again not an economical solution). So even having a wife or partner hold a flashlight while you concentrate would be a better solution to an overhead ceiling light. I just don't know the short answer.

Scc's review about that loupe, is the exact opposite of mine. Of course there are strong indications that my loupe was in the end a defect one and I should have returned -if I could- but for me nothing more is actually needed than a good sticky cleaner to remove dust, a good wet solution to wipe sensor in the case of oil spots (microfiber cloths maybe the best here, dust aid already sells a solution here) and a very strong light (cree led) which is also not needed that much, but shows you what you have done.

One good test is to eventually take a picture at say F=4, blue skies and see how many dust particles then are shown. F=16 is nice, but how many of you actually using it in reality?

[sfokevin]

So has anyone used their Da Vinci for sensor cleaning?

[chrism]

I'm referring my M9 for a colposcopy.

 

Chris

[vicaf]

Sure beats a colonoscopy...hope the prep is easier

[Guest WPalank]

I ordered the Pentax orange stickie thing, dust-aid platinum and E2 already on a pre-moistened sensor swab this morning.

 

Anyone know where I can get a bottle of E2 in the US?

[carcam]

carcam,

I knew I couldn't be the first although I've been thinking about it for years. I just didn't want to be a bother to my former partners or any buddies (my luck , one of those expensive bulbs will blow while I'm using it).

 

I only used the scope once but I have a backup pr of 2.5x loupes with a fiberoptic light source at home for emergency dust removal.

 

Where you able to take any pictures or screengrabs? Do you have a link to your dpreview thread?

 

I looked it up, mar 09 but deleted the images from pbase so the thread is there but no pics...

 

Compressed air is an interesting idea since you can actually visualize what you are doing with it. Did you find the bulb blowers as useless as I did?

 

Everyone I know finds the bulbs useless. A camera repair tech told me the compressed air is very technique sensitive- have to hold the can upright only and lean the camera into it so none of the propellant freezes anything inside (if you tip the can, the propellent can come out). Extremely effective since there is so much sh*t everywhere inside, it's the only way to get out the bulk of it out.

 

BTW, I was at my former teaching establishment last week and had a sit down with Alan Gluskin. He says he's on the board for if not the head of the San Diego meeting. As I keep all my credentials and licensure active, you never know?!

 

Good for you! You never know when you'll get the urge again. Great photos in your portfolio, btw. Definitely more fun the RCT's...

[Guest WPalank]

Part II

Over the last couple of days I received the following products:

 

1) Sensor Swab (product name) presoaked with E2 in individual packets. I asked earlier in the post if anyone has any idea where I might be able to pick up a bottle as it seems to be unavailable and discontinued in the US and nobody responded. I have to assume it is currently unavailable.

 

2) Dust-Aid Platinum.

 

3) Pentax Image Sensor Cleaning System (orange sticky thing on a stick).

 

Well I was finally was able to reach the Zeiss Microscope rep for the area who helped me do the math to find the effective magnification of my field of view. Turns out it is actually 20x. Ok, so that's why I'm seeing so much crap. I knew the magnification was much more than 2.5 but didn't know how to arrive at the correct number.

 

First off, the white particulate matter was still there and lots of it and only visible at about 10x magnification because I knew where to look for it and how. So those using the 7x magnification of the Visible Dust Loupe or even surgical loupes (mine are made by Zeiss and 3.6x magnification) you won't see it and I'm sure it won't be seen on a print. But still it is there and bothersome.

 

Pentax Cleaning System

Pretty sticky and what amazed me is it does not leave one bit of residue. Nada! But you can only use it for one or two thwacks before having to stamp it's sticky surface adhesive pad to clean off the gunk, which seems to work really well. But there was a lot of stuff it wouldn't pick up. I could view small particles in the Surgical Operating Microscope (SOM)

give them a thump with the device and they would remain (even after three times).

 

Dust-Aid Platinum

First off, I don't know if mine was defective but the surface was not tacky at all. It's some sort of silicon based substance that I found it to be the least effective (on pseudo-microscopic particles) of all the systems I tried. Didn't seem to effective on larger clumps as well. the good news is that it left no residue as well.

 

Arctic Butterfly (II)

This time I cleaned it in the detergent supplied by the manufacturer. This time it did not leave behind any particles but wasn't all that effective either. But it was simple to use as you don't have to dump it back onto an adhesive pad. Instead you just flick the battery control knob and let it spin for awhile.

 

Sensor Swab with E2

I remember using E2 about three years ago and it didn't work like this. This thing left such bad streaking and globules, I couldn't see if it had effectively cleaned the sensor (if that makes sense?)

Use another one. Immediately I noticed a big black hair on the swab as I removed it from it's semi-sterile packet. Talk about QC? After removing the hair (no microscope necessary) again it left swirls and streaks.

I then pulled out a Visible Dust Sensor Swab (different manufacturer then Sensor Swab), dosed it with their product Smear Away and was able to remove the streaks effectively. Funny thing is that these microscopic bits (that none of the rest of you can see or want to see) are starting to disappear.

Before removing the streaks with the VD products I went in with the Pentax product, just for the hell of it, and it left a visible impression as it was somewhat effective in lifting off the streak. The Dust-Aid had no effect what so ever.

 

I then went back to the Sensor Swab E2 combo and it again left streaking. I waited and waited to see if it would evaporate, but to no avail. This time I went in with the Sensor Swab product (as opposed to the VD) dosed it with Smear Away and lo and behold it cleaned a lot of the smear but it left a lot of swirls. In other words, it was nowhere near as effective or non-pollutant as the VD swab. In my eyes, just looking at the two swabs next to each other, the VD swab just looks like a better manufactured product. If you read Part I of this report you will note that I thought it was a better product because it was stiffer. This time just looking at the quality of the cloth material, I felt the VD was a better made product. (Totally subjective, I know.)

 

So finally I went back to the VD swab and used the Smear Away followed by Sensor Clean (two different swabs) and hell, even under microscopic analysis, my sensor is pretty darn clean! Under 10x magnification, I couldn't see a spot.

 

Finally, I had more time and was able to view my Canon 5D Mark II under the same conditions. This camera has the automatic sensor cleaning function.

This sensor was pretty darn clean. here's the kicker, the Rocket Blower was pretty effective at removing some of the specks that were present. Those bits that were still hanging on were VERY effectively removed by the Arctic Butterfly.

 

In my mind the sensor of the M9 is significantly more difficult to clean than a Canon 5D Mark II. Whether it's due to electrostatic charge or other factors, I'll leave it to others to conclude.

 

Final thoughts:

In this investigators hands:

 

1) Wet cleaning is a significantly better method than the "sticky" methods when it comes to a M9 sensor.

 

2) Since I had used Smear Way followed by Sensor Clean in the past without being able to clean off all the sensor particles, there is a possibility that the E2 solution is a better "solvent' on the particles in my M9.

 

3) I could not attain a bottle of E2, so I had to use the Sensor Swab soaked in E2 which lead to a completely unsatisfactory result. It might be the Sensor Swab itself and not the solution that lead to this result. Possibly, I received a bad batch.

 

4) The VD Swab, in this investigators eyes, is a superior product to the Sensor Swab.

 

5) To get a satisfactory result(verified under a SOM with high-intensity fiber optic light source), I had to follow up with Smear Away followed by Sensor Clean using the VD swab.

 

Addendum A

As has been pointed out in this thread and other threads I have been involved in, I DON'T KNOW what size a particulate piece of matter has to be to make a difference on print, web image, what size final output, what f-stop.....

I have no idea!

What I do know is that once I opened this can of worms (my bad!) and saw tons of schmutz on my sensor (who cares WHAT magnification) I wanted it off of there and sought out to find the solution. End of Story! If people feel better or smarter by dabbing at dust particles and then running out to shoot pictures of the sky and then importing images into their computer software and then trying to guess the location of the SPECK, God Bless You!

IMHO I feel it is easier to visualize it accurately, clean it thoroughly and then I'm done!

 

Finally, I know there will probably be people posting on this thread, "But what size do the particles need to be....." Therefore, the reason for Addendum A. I can simply point them in it's direction where all my thoughts are laid out and I can simply say, "Please see Addendum A." Lazy, I know.

[Jeff S]

E2 solution appears to be included in some of the "survival kits" at B&H (note that some at bottom of page are discontinued, but ones at top seem in stock...they seem to be the same, but codes appear different)....eclipse 2

 

My local photo dealer sold me one of these kits a few months back.

 

Jeff

 

PS This appears to be the solution now sold...http://www.photosol.com/eclipseproduct.htm

[Guest WPalank]

E2 solution appears to be included in some of the "survival kits" at B&H (note that some at bottom of page are discontinued, but ones at top seem in stock...they seem to be the same, but codes appear different)....eclipse 2

 

My local photo dealer sold me one of these kits a few months back.

 

Jeff

 

PS This appears to be the solution now sold...Cleaning Digital Cameras - Photographic Solutions, Inc.

 

Jeff,

 

Thanks a million. It looks like there is a small bottle of E2 in the "Survival Kit".

 

In my first report I found the current Eclipse product to be only a fair to middlin' product in removing very small particulate matter. I have read on other Forums that the E2 product is much more effective.

 

I believe E2 is NOT allowed on airplanes whereas Eclipse IS.

 

They changed something in the chemistry

[James R]

Jeff,

 

Thanks a million. It looks like there is a small bottle of E2 in the "Survival Kit".

 

In my first report I found the current Eclipse product to be only a fair to middlin' product in removing very small particulate matter. I have read on other Forums that the E2 product is much more effective.

 

I believe E2 is NOT allowed on airplanes whereas Eclipse IS.

 

They changed something in the chemistry

 

Copper HIll Images states that E2 is not required to clean sensor. There tests have shown that Eclipse is all that is needed. It doesn't damage sensor/filter coatings. Save the money and use Eclipse. I've been using it on my D3 for 2 years and it works fine.

[Guest WPalank]

Copper HIll Images states that E2 is not required to clean sensor. There tests have shown that Eclipse is all that is needed. It doesn't damage sensor/filter coatings. Save the money and use Eclipse. I've been using it on my D3 for 2 years and it works fine.

 

James,

 

Thank you for your input.

 

All I can say is last week, this sub microscopic white particulate matter, that none of you will see, would not budge after using , Eclipse, Smear Away and Sensor Clean.

 

Today after using E2, Smear Away and Sensor clean, most of it is gone. I doubt anyone is evaluating the efficacy of these products at 20x magnification.

 

The other possibility is that it took the earlier products a week to soak, to make their removal today easier. I don't know.

 

What I would have liked to have seen is the result of the VD swab with the E2 solution.

 

I've possibly raised more questions (in my mind anyway) than I have answered.

 

I don't have a D3, but I can confirm cleaning specks off my Canon Camera to be 20x easier than the M9. Electrostatic charge, material from the factory....I'm have no idea. I've had the M9 less time and have travelled less with it than the Canon. I keep both camera bodies in the exact same environment. Why don't I have the same hard to remove particulate matter on the Canon sensor? Again, I don't know.

 

Again, I don't think these specks would show up in final output, but they are there.

 

I talked to the Zeiss rep and the cost for a beam splitter and apparatus to hold a camera would be in $5600 range to take images and show you guys the data. Sadly, I can't afford to do so.

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[k-hawinkler]

Jeff,

 

Thanks a million. It looks like there is a small bottle of E2 in the "Survival Kit".

 

In my first report I found the current Eclipse product to be only a fair to middlin' product in removing very small particulate matter. I have read on other Forums that the E2 product is much more effective.

 

I believe E2 is NOT allowed on airplanes whereas Eclipse IS.

 

They changed something in the chemistry

 

William,

 

Have you tried this?

 

Amazon.com: Eclipse E2 Sensor Cleaning Fluid: Electronics

Amazon.com: Used and New: Eclipse E2 Sensor Cleaning Fluid

 

Indeed, E2 is NOT allowed on airplanes.

E2 seems to work pretty well with VisibleDust Sensor Cleaning Swab on my M9 sensor though.

Of course, I can't verify that anywhere near as good as you can.

 

It looks like E2 is being discontinued: https://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=PSI-E2-F

Quote: "Photographic Solutions is officially discontinuing Eclipse E2 as the concerns of Eclipse “Possibly” being too strong for use on Tin Oxide coated sensors has been unfounded. I have done many tests on this subject myself and concur that Eclipse is safe and better for use on all DSLR sensor no matter what coating they have on them. So is E2 bad, NO but Eclipse is easier to use with better results."

 

Many many thanks for your very insightful information, k-hawinkler

[diogenis]

Thanks a lot for all the effort you put in there William and the time you wasted for this.

Our final test should be some sand blasting I believe