Elmarit M ASPH 21 or 24 in real life

[BillM82]

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I have searched the forum and also read up on Puts and Huff.

 

A lot of info on the forum relates to the use of these lenses on the M8 & 8.2 rather than M9.

 

As an enthusiastic amateur, I am after a wide lens for travel and general photography. I currently have a 35 Cron ASPH and a 90 AA.

 

I understand the 24 will be easier to use as less distortion but the 21 may provide more dynamic results.

 

For those of you with one or other or both of these and an M9, which one is used and which one gets left in the bag?

 

ps, as I don't have diamonds on the soles of my shoes, I am talking here about the 2.8 not 1.4!

 

Bill:cool:

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[likalar]

Bill, others are way more qualified to answer (my widest lens is 28mm on an M9) but this might be a bit of help:

 

I know that you searched the forum; did you also search the Photo Forum herein? There you can look at reader's photographs in several subject categories; the lens used is often described, and might give you a feel for the "look" of the different lenses. Good luck.

 

Larry (my 28 stays in the bag quite a bit; I would likely use a wider lens very rarely, but it would be fun to try, I guess.....that's my subjective opinion)

[MacSpikes]

I asked myself the same question recently. For travel purposes I wanted to add a wide to my 35 cron and 50 lux. I also looked at the 21 and 24mm. Most photographers that came from an M8 loved the 24 since it's close to a 35mm on full frame. As an extra lens on the M9 it is just too close to the 35mm, so I decided not to buy one. I did like the fact however, that you can shoot it without an external viewfinder. The standard M9 finder seems to be close to 24mm if you use the outermost edges.

So, did I buy the 21mm Elmarit? No I did not, although I really like the compact design. I ended up buying the 18mm Super-Elmar (on sale at Robert White). On my Nikon D3 I used the 17-35mm lens a lot and mostly at 17mm. I therefor decided to go for an ultra-wide. My travel kit now is: M9, 18 SE, 35 cron, 50 lux and one Op/tech dual mount lens cover. All packed in a small Domke F-5XA ;-)

[noah_addis]

I've had both, as well as a 24/1.4, though that was used on the M8 to make up for it's limited high-ISO capability.

 

My current kit matches yours, I use a 35 Cron Asph and a 90AA. I end up using the 35 for the vast majority of my work, well over 90 percent. So I've decided when I need something wider (or longer), I may as well go to the extreme. So instead of a 50, I use a 90. And instead of the 28 or 24, I take the 21 Elmarit Asph.

 

I think the 21/35/90 is a great kit for those who don't have the zoom mentality of having every focal length covered. For me it's a perfect kit to handle a very wide range of situations.

 

The only caveat is the red edge problem with the M9. I do get a red edge on the left side of the frame with the 21 Elmarit Asph. I've heard the 24 Elmarit also can suffer from this problem though, so you'd be in the same boat either way. One thread on here suggests that the Zeiss 21 does not produce a red edge, but I have not tried it. I'm counting on a firmware update.

 

So I'd still recommend the 21 Elmarit Asph. It's quite a nice lens and definitely feels wide but performs relatively well when it comes to distortion. Just be prepared to deal with the color problem until we get a firmware update.

 

I went for the Voigtlander 21mm finder. I'd prefer a metal finder but it seems to be made well and optically it's quite good.

[scc]

I have 24/35/50. Looking to add 90 at some stage.

 

Prefer the 24 to the 21 as I don't need to frame with an external viewfinder.

 

For any wider, I use my Lumix GH1 with a 7-14mm f4.0 zoom, an excellent lens. The flip out LCD is perfect for this kinda of lens, lets you get down nice and low and frame with ease.

[innerimager]

I recently obtained the 21 lux for the M9 and while we know the 1.4 is not in consideration my geneal experience may be of value. I find the 21mm fl very exciting to use. I've worked at 24 with several cameras but rarely at 21 and it opens a way of seeing and composing I am really drawn to. So far most of my images are at 5.6 so it's not the unique wide 1.4 look I am responding to. As to a finder, I hate to say it but the Zeiss 21 is a joy to look through and well worth it if you plan on using the 21 a lot.

[Jerry_R]

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I have 24/35/50 [...] For any wider, I use my Lumix GH1 with a 7-14mm f4.0 zoom, an excellent lens

Didn't you consider CV 12mm or 15mm? I wanted to buy 15mm, but am waiting for 12mm M version.

I had to sell GH1 and 7-14mm in order to buy M9 ;-)

[Jerry_R]

Cost of GH1 and 7-14mm is quite big. For these money, maybe with some additonal amount to be added, you could buy even used WATE.

Or you are using GH1 for sth else too?

[scc]

I actually sold my CV15mm a while back. Dislike external finders too much, and found the GH1/7-14mm combo much more flexible.

 

A new GH1 ($1379) and 7-14 ($1099) is still much cheaper than a WATE ($5995 + $899 for the finder!).

Bear in mind second hand prices, and also consider the G1 body, which is much cheaper than the GH1 and offers nearly as good still performance.

 

I use my GH1 for video as well as stills, but it wears the pants for wide angle.

[BillM82]

Thanks guys.

 

I tried both at the Leica Shop in Mayfair, London yesterday. I really like the 21.

 

However, I really do not want to fiddle around with external finders.

 

I guess it will be a case of making a mental adjustment in framing and getting used to it.

 

Or am I wrong and an external finder is a must?

 

Bill:)

[luigi bertolotti]

I have not a M9, but used for many years film Leicas : 35+21 was the perfect WA combo, for me, and the Elmarit asph is a great lens. Only (little) issue is the external VF: it was mandatory with my M4, whilst I suspect that with M9 one can renounce to it in many situations. I appreciate a lot 24 onto my M8, but is all another kind of combination... and don't forget that M9 has a lot of Mpixels... a little cropping "21 to 24" when needed isn't surely a problem.

[batmobile]

Very personal opinions coming up:

 

Personally I would go for a 24. I think the 24-35 gap is about perfect as 24 is evidently very wide whereas 35 is mild wide. 21 is getting quite extreme and injects much more perspective distortion into shapes near the edges/corners (great for interiors tho).

 

For years I have shot with 28-35 as my main lenses and even here the extra wideness of the 28 allows for very difference creative compositions compared to 35 so I am surprised by anyone who claims that 24-35 are rather close (its close to the perfect 1.4 or 1.5X factor that many lens manufacturers and landscape shooters build their kits on).

 

IMHO 24 and 35 they are poles apart in your ability to dramatise foreground or open up interior spaces. 35 is a mildly wide standard. 24 is very much a full on wide angle. You could also argue that the 24 negates the need for a 21 or 28, with a little loss in flexibility obviously. 18-35 is a HUGE gap leaving the typical wide territory (where you can create dynamic compositions without images looking 'OMG thats wide' completely untapped. IMVH(and personal)O this is a mistake. Most famous shots are not dominated by perspective for good reason. Too much perspective or wide angle drama can detract from a great image by dominating the image at the expense of 'the image'. Shots that look 'normal' tend to work better IMO than stretched cars, dogs, wonky buildings etc. In my opinion, one is more successful 'going for the shot' and using the FL needed than 'using dramatic FLs' and finding the images to fit. Do a search and see how many really great shots you find in teh various FLs. They drop off dramatically the wider you go and IMHO the people who use really wide lenses most successfully often shoot in such a manner that it is not obvious that a very wide lens was used...

 

24 and 28 are right smack in the middle of the wide category, although I do like 21 very much. While I could cope with 21-35 as Noah does, 18-38 would have me screaming for something wider than 35 but not so insanely wide as 18.

 

Having shot 21 (a little)-28 (a fair amount) -35 (a heck of a lot) 50 (ocassionally) for a long time I am on the way to moving to 24-35-50 (or 75) to get a larger gap from 35 to 24 (rather than 28, which is borderline too close, but still great for the internal framelines). This is only an issue because like Noah I am totally committed to 35 as my 'anchor.' If 50 will do as well as your anchor, I would suggest 21-28-50, but for me, I always find that 35 just right which impacts on the otherwise wonderfull middle wide 28. Your mileage may vary!

[The_hog]

To: batmobile.

 

Thank's for getting personal, batmobile. I'm currently one of those waiting for my M9. Been shooting Nikon D300 last 3 years. Am in the process of acquiring lenses for the M9. What I have already is an Elmarit 90mm, an old Summilux 50mm, and a 35 Summarit. Now the last but not least lens I need is something substituting my loved Tokina 12-24, (which shoots as 18-36 full frame) used extensively for landscape and other scenes. Your reasoning for the 24mm is very thought invoking.

 

What might happen is I'll go for a 24mm (hopfully a Summilux) and round things up with the CV15

I know, this disease won't go away

Regards

Arni

[BillM82]

Well I decided on the 21mm 2.8 Elmarit from Red Dot in London.

 

Looking forward to Richmond Park in the sunshine (?) this weekend to try it out.

 

Many thanks to all of you who chipped in with advice. I think Noah swayed me with the 21 - 35 - 90 story.

 

Downside is that the whole set has to go be calibrated at Solms as I have severe backfocus on my 90 AA Cron (thought it was my eyes!!). Still, not till next week.

 

Thanks again. This Forum is a fantastic place to go for help and advice.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Julian Thompson]

You will not be sorry - the 21 Elmarit on the M9 is absolutely fantastic and I use mine absolutely all the time.

[innerimager]

Congratulations and enjoy shooting that 21mm! best....Peter

[ananobes]

I have the same three lenses so will be very interested in your experiences with the 21, 35, 90 combo.

 

Well, when I say I have these same lenses... I did get to check them when they arrived yesterday. The 21 and 90 Elmarits we both Leica Demo models but come with full warranty and passport. Both are immaculate. The 35 cron is new.

 

Anyway, my better half has confiscated them to await arrival of an M9 and future celebratory day.

 

So without a body, all I could do was warm them up (they were freezing cold on delivery) and introduce them to the rest of their new, extended family.