patrick parker Posted February 2, 2010 Share #1 Posted February 2, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) H4D-40 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Hi patrick parker, Take a look here The new Hassel doesn't seem to be an S2 killer.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mwilliamsphotography Posted February 3, 2010 Share #2 Posted February 3, 2010 Wow! You've shot with the H4D/40 already? How does it compare to the S2 you shot with? Thanks for any insights into the performance comparisons you experienced. -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted February 3, 2010 Share #3 Posted February 3, 2010 Well I have not used either the S2 or the new Hassleblad, but on the latter it seems to be the same body design as previous models, and does not offer 35mm DSLR type handling. So if you want the S2 type handling, which is one of its major selling points, you wont get it from anywhere else at the moment. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted February 3, 2010 Share #4 Posted February 3, 2010 Well I have not used either the S2 or the new Hassleblad, but on the latter it seems to be the same body design as previous models, and does not offer 35mm DSLR type handling. So if you want the S2 type handling, which is one of its major selling points, you wont get it from anywhere else at the moment. Jeff That's true enough, and an obvious point of difference from all other MFD systems. More fully implemented Weather Sealing is another. Points to ponder depending on your intended applications. Yet, one has to also ponder all the other factors that have been well discussed ... as well as those nitty-gritty differences haven't been covered: This H4D40 comes in at just under $20,000. complete ... $7,500. and change less than a S2 with lens ... more than enough cash difference to add the highly acclaimed H/C 30-90 ASPH Zoom to the H system. Pro service for the S2 body is $3,795. + $995. for the lens = $4,790. ... compared to 3 year hot swap Pro Service for H4D/40 kit @ $2,500. Again, enough cost difference to add a nice H/C 150/3.2 lens to the H Kit. The S2 has one center focus point ... the H4D/40 delivers True Focus for off-center compositions ... a big deal if you've ever used a MFD camera with its more shallow DOF compared to 35mm DSLRs. However, if the form factor is THE deciding factor for purchase, then the S2 is the only game in town. As far as IQ comparisons are concerned ... that has yet to be determined. -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted February 3, 2010 Share #5 Posted February 3, 2010 Typo correction ... H/C 35-90 Zoom lens ... not 30-90. Sorry. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted February 3, 2010 Share #6 Posted February 3, 2010 Pro service for the S2 body is $3,795. + $995. for the lens = $4,790. ... compared to 3 year hot swap Pro Service for H4D/40 kit @ $2,500. Again, enough cost difference to add a nice H/C 150/3.2 lens to the H Kit. -Marc Marc, Just a clarification, $3795 is for the Platinum Service Package, which also includes a shutter replacement. Most individual purchasers (ie. not rental houses), opt for the Premium Service Package, which costs $1495 for the body and $495 for the lens = $1990. Other than the shutter replacement and loaner service, both packages offer the same level of coverage (hot swap within first 3 months, discount on accidental damage repairs, 1 year warranty extension). David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted February 3, 2010 Share #7 Posted February 3, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I suppose when I heard the term 'S2 killer' I was expecting a change in the Hassleblad design more along the lines of a 35mm DSLR plus the price and other advantages over the S2. But when you think about it, that would be a big big change by Hassleblad or PhaseOne, whose current camera design goes back to their 6x6 days. I read somewhere that they did consider it a while back. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted February 3, 2010 Share #8 Posted February 3, 2010 Marc, Just a clarification, $3795 is for the Platinum Service Package, which also includes a shutter replacement. Most individual purchasers (ie. not rental houses), opt for the Premium Service Package, which costs $1495 for the body and $495 for the lens = $1990. Other than the shutter replacement and loaner service, both packages offer the same level of coverage (hot swap within first 3 months, discount on accidental damage repairs, 1 year warranty extension). David Thanks for the clarification David. FYI, the Hassey Flexcare warranty I quoted is extended for 2 years (total 3 years), not a one year extension ... so not quite the same. -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 3, 2010 Share #9 Posted February 3, 2010 You can save all kinds of money buying a Hassy over the S2. Of course, you lose it all in chiropractic bills after lugging that lump around - or assistants' fees to have THEM lug it around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephengilbert Posted February 3, 2010 Share #10 Posted February 3, 2010 So the Hasselblad is a lump, and the S2 is essentially weightless. Makes the additional price a bargain. On the other hand, think of what you can save by quitting your gym and using the lump as your weight training. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arminw Posted February 3, 2010 Share #11 Posted February 3, 2010 I am using a H3D II 50 and I admit having thought about switching over to Leica after the S2 was introduced. I was considering selling my medium format Hasselblad System with all the lenses and start again. Obviously that would have been a big mistake, having had the chance play and to see the S2 in action. The big block hassi as some call it gives you a rather unique shooting experience. I love shooting with it, and I do it all day hand held. It also has all the lenses, support sytem in place, which leica is still unable to provide. It has a fantastic RAW converter Phocus, which I love, and I don't have to use Lightroom which I don't like at all ... I use aperture! For me, the H4D40 is a reason to stay in the Hasselblad medium format world for the moment, and perhaps the S3 or S4 will convert me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted February 3, 2010 Share #12 Posted February 3, 2010 You can save all kinds of money buying a Hassy over the S2. Of course, you lose it all in chiropractic bills after lugging that lump around - or assistants' fees to have THEM lug it around. Well, again for clarification ... the S2 with 70mm lens tips the scales @ 5.60 lbs ... the H4D/40 with prism, 80/2.8 lens and digital back @ 5.04 Lbs. The S2 may be a different form factor, but it isn't lighter ... so no savings on those Chiropractic bills : -) The other S2 advantage to ponder is the dual shutter system. One for the H4D column is the use of a waist level finder ... which is an important studio feature for me ... Just part of the different form factors. -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosandthelaw Posted February 4, 2010 Share #13 Posted February 4, 2010 While I have not shot specifically with this new camera, I had the displeasure of owning and operating it's predecessor - the H3D-31. That camera was a piece of junk. It felt like plastic. The firewire port broke twice. The need to create intermediary files using proprietary software in order to use the highest resolution images in photoshop or aperture is not for most photographers. As an owner of the S2 - the lenses alone are worth the price of admission. I am well aware that Hassie lenses are amazing - but not the fuji rebranded hassie lenses but the original zeiss lenses... and only some of them at that. They really are two different camera beats... that just happen to have a similar resolution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 4, 2010 Share #14 Posted February 4, 2010 I did happen to run across an episode of "So You Want To Be The Next Supermodel" today, and the photogs were using Mamiya RZs and "new-style" Hassys. Often handheld. But they also all had Schwarzenegger shoulders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 4, 2010 Share #15 Posted February 4, 2010 Honestly Andy the handling and weight is so overrated to the negative side of MF it's really a joke when I read those types of comments. Honestly no different than a Nikon D3X with a 24-70 just in a different form. I do it everyday without complaint, your coming from a M that's not even comparable and frankly there are not feather weights either. The S2 is not really heavy itself the lenses are trucks, just the opposite with Phase for sure. The body is heavier but the lenses are smaller and lighter. In the end it is relatively the same besides a couple ounces. I work with these hand held for hours on end if anything my back is shot long before my arms are but my back is shot anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted February 4, 2010 Share #16 Posted February 4, 2010 Well, again for clarification ... the S2 with 70mm lens tips the scales @ 5.60 lbs ... the H4D/40 with prism, 80/2.8 lens and digital back @ 5.04 Lbs. The S2 may be a different form factor, but it isn't lighter ... so no savings on those Chiropractic bills : -) The other S2 advantage to ponder is the dual shutter system. One for the H4D column is the use of a waist level finder ... which is an important studio feature for me ... Just part of the different form factors. -Marc the S2 weight factor is just another Leica mayth which built up in this forum. amazing how some want to deny facts. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted February 4, 2010 Share #17 Posted February 4, 2010 While I have not shot specifically with this new camera, I had the displeasure of owning and operating it's predecessor - the H3D-31. That camera was a piece of junk. It felt like plastic. The firewire port broke twice. The need to create intermediary files using proprietary software in order to use the highest resolution images in photoshop or aperture is not for most photographers. As an owner of the S2 - the lenses alone are worth the price of admission. I am well aware that Hassie lenses are amazing - but not the fuji rebranded hassie lenses but the original zeiss lenses... and only some of them at that. They really are two different camera beats... that just happen to have a similar resolution. sorry but the HC and HCD lenses beat the old zeiss V lenses easily. MTFwise and even bokeh wise. twogenerations of lens design are in between them. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted February 4, 2010 Share #18 Posted February 4, 2010 Ease up folks, it's just a camera after all. Rants about gear from 3 digital generations ago, and murderous claims of "Killing this or that" all aside ... it's nice that we have some excellent choices to fit our different specific needs and/or desires. To quote the song ... "If I were a rich man" ... I'd love both a S2 with 3 lenses, and a higher meg, larger sensor Hassey or Phase One kit. Really, they are different propositions. Make that "a filthy rich man" ... because I actually do have the business capital investment funds to get a S2, but not enough to upgrade my H3D-II/39 to a H4D/60 AND plunk down 40K more for a basic S2 three lens kit. To paraphrase: "ten grand here, ten grand there ... pretty soon you are into some real money." Doesn't mean one won't throw logic to the wind and indulge in whims of fantasy ... which is part of the Leica siren's song I often fall prey to with my M gear ... witness the lack of reasoning in securing a M50/0.95 Noctilux at a cost that simply isn't justifiable using any form of logic known to man. A move I haven't regretted in the least. Love is blind ... LOL! -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
haribo Posted February 4, 2010 Share #19 Posted February 4, 2010 This is the Church of Leica. Anything else is evil and like tasting a forbidden fruit, it will only get one straight to hell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted February 4, 2010 Share #20 Posted February 4, 2010 Well, again for clarification ... the S2 with 70mm lens tips the scales @ 5.60 lbs ... the H4D/40 with prism, 80/2.8 lens and digital back @ 5.04 Lbs. The S2 may be a different form factor, but it isn't lighter ... so no savings on those Chiropractic bills : -) The other S2 advantage to ponder is the dual shutter system. One for the H4D column is the use of a waist level finder ... which is an important studio feature for me ... Just part of the different form factors. -Marc Marc, I'd be curious to know where you got your numbers from. The S2 with the 70mm and battery is 4.74 lbs, according to Leica's published specs. http://s.leica-camera.com/assets/downloads/technical-data/S2-Technical-data-en.pdf http://s.leica-camera.com/assets/downloads/technical-data/S-Lenses-Technical-data-en.pdf These numbers were verified by my postage scale here at work, which is accurate to 1/10 oz. I'd be happy to double-check tomorrow, when I'll be getting another S2 shipment and my own S2-P demo unit. While not earth-shatteringly lighter, the S2 is lighter than the H4D. And, while the difference here isn't very much due to the 70mm being slightly larger and heavier (26 oz) than the Hassy 80mm (20 oz), once you put on a longer lens, like the HC 210 (2.9 lb) on the H4 vs. the 180 (2.55 lb) on S2, I'd think you'd see the gap widen (6.7 lbs vs. 5.65 lbs). Regardless of the lens chosen, the H4 body weighs 60.7 oz and the S2 body weighs 49.7 oz. In other words, regardless of the lens chosen, there will always be a 2/3 lb difference in the body. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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