EP-2 vs M8 as budget, spare or 2nd camera

[Ivo_Afrikanac]

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My 1st post.

 

I think that Olympus EP-2 (with proper M lenses of course) would actually make more sense if budget is low then M8, especially as a 2nd camera or while funds are gathered for M9.

 

My photo history.

I started as russian FED user, grew to love it (I know it is not leica, it tears film sometimes, but there is somtehing about those relics and russian glass). Later changed to Canon AE1, last 5 years with Olympus E-500. When I pick a camera I tend to stay with it and not swap from day to day.

 

I was always on the lookout for leica, and for the first time I have money and M9 looks like something you can call 'love of my life' (in camera grounds, I am not weird).

 

So I am planning on getting one M9... this EP-2 though is just a prelude unitl I get to Europe again...

 

Cheers.

[Ario Arioldi]

EP-2 is a nice camera (I have one) but is not a substitute for an M8.

Cheers,

Ario

[Ivo_Afrikanac]

EP-2 is a nice camera (I have one) but is not a substitute for an M8.

Cheers,

Ario

 

I was not thinking a substitute... more something different, and later add M9.

I think having M8 and M9 or two M9 does not have too much sense.

 

I agree (although I have no personal experience) that M8 must be in leica terms and quality much better then EP-2.

[Logic108]

Quality from the M8 is way way beyond the Olympus. The only other camera that is cheaper and that will come close is the X1. Also there are many problems using Leica lenses on the Olympus - extreme unsharpness in the corners is one.

I for one would consider the X1 and future derivatives but as of today the Olympus is way behind in IQ.

I have heard good things about the Panny GF1 with the 20mm pancake. But alas it's also the case that putting a Leica lens on the Panny won't give you that magic.

[Ivo_Afrikanac]

Quality from the M8 is way way beyond the Olympus. The only other camera that is cheaper and that will come close is the X1. Also there are many problems using Leica lenses on the Olympus - extreme unsharpness in the corners is one.

I for one would consider the X1 and future derivatives but as of today the Olympus is way behind in IQ.

I have heard good things about the Panny GF1 with the 20mm pancake. But alas it's also the case that putting a Leica lens on the Panny won't give you that magic.

 

Thanks for that.

 

On the other hand X1 can't be used with other lenses, so it defeats a bit my idea to use EP-2 as creative 2nd, spare or budget.

 

Why would it be that IQ is bad on EP-2 (apart from it's original lesser quality), with adapter it should provide interesting choice with M lenses.

 

I'll stress again, I am not implying in any way EP-2 can replace M8.

[Ario Arioldi]

In my experience you can use M lenses on EP-2 or any other m4/3 camera with decent to good results only starting from 50mm and above (100mm and above in 24x36mm terms).

If you need wide angle lenses you have to use the dedicated ones (telecentric design).

This is one of the main reasons why a m4/3 is not a replacement for a digital M (IMHO).

Cheers,

Ario

[diogenis]

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If I would buy an EP2, I would buy it for some telephotos or Macro lenses that don't exist for an M.

[jonoslack]

Quality from the M8 is way way beyond the Olympus. The only other camera that is cheaper and that will come close is the X1. Also there are many problems using Leica lenses on the Olympus - extreme unsharpness in the corners is one.

I for one would consider the X1 and future derivatives but as of today the Olympus is way behind in IQ.

 

I'm sorry - this simply isn't the case, and it's not helpful to say so. I did quite a lot of comparison shots between the X1 and the Pen (same subject, same focal length), and the difference in image quality is very small . . . . very very small. I also showed the shots to a number of other people, and this confirmed how small the difference was.

 

If you're trying to give people advice, then you really should be sure about this sort of thing before making categorical statements.

 

As far as using Leica lenses on the Pen - it's not perfect with the lenses at 28mm and wider (soft corners on some lenses as you say), however, at longer focal lengths they make an excellent match.

 

I'm actually using an M9 as a backup camera for my M9, but I keep a Pen in my bag together with the Leica / Panasonic 45mm macro lens, and it does an excellent and creditable job. The Pen also gives you other functionality (telephoto for one thing).

 

The E-P2 is a lovely camera, as is the M9 the M9 and the X1 - horses for courses

[diogenis]

Jono? The pen or the GF1?

[jonoslack]

Jono? The pen or the GF1?

 

HI There . . . oof, what a question!

I've had both, and I kept the Pen, because I prefer the colour (may be imaginary) and I like the body and handling better and I didn't need the popup flash. On the other hand, the focusing is not as fast (it's as accurate I think). The real big deal for me though is the IS in body with the Olympus and not with the GF1, which is relevant if you're sticking a 50 lux on it.

 

I'm more impressed with the panasonic lenses though (20mm f1.7 pancake seems marginally better than the Olympus 17 f2.8).

 

I don't think there is a 'rational' answer to this question! So my preference is emotional.

[brianv]

With prices of gently used M8's at the $2,000 mark- I got the M8. Money for the M9 went into a CD. Let the camera mature a little, and see if it is for me.

 

Jupiter-3 on my M8.

 

 

I like the Rangefinder action of the M8, and the adapters do not cost as much. It is a real rangefinder. The 1.3x crop factor is not much, considering the crop factor with prints and negative scanners is about 1.1.

 

Go for the M8, add the M9 when the time is right.

[tom in mpls]

I have the GF1 with the 20mm as my "other" camera. Both are black, so they look like Dr. Evil and Mini-Me. My wife can't tell them apart.

[Jerry_R]

I think that Olympus EP-2 (with proper M lenses of course) would actually make more sense if budget is low then M8, especially as a 2nd camera or while funds are gathered for M9.

I fully agree. It will give you better IQ, including nicer JPG colors, sharpness and high ISO than M8. Especially with 20mm lens, also 7-14mm and 45mm are very good. Focusing distance is much more closer. You can observe on line AF and framing - no guessing, front focus, back focus.

 

Only and just M9 - makes the deal, makes the difference.

 

Do not listen closed people, who only belive in Leica and do not see external world.

 

If you listen people who had both in their hands - PEN will give much more better IQ in most (not all) situations. M8 is a test phase product, sth released in half of the way before FF. Forget need of IR filters, poorer resolution, poorer JPG results and many others.

 

I also considered this way. When I saw results from M8 of my firend - I would never buy it, even for half of price.

 

I decided to buy M9. And I know all existing bodies and lenses from u43 very good.

 

PS: you should ask the same question on non Leica portal - you will receive more real answers. Here you can get very, very often close minded answers, like advices of using Leica lenses, even if corresponding Zeiss is better - most often from people who use Leica for years, and never had Zeiss lens attached...

[Logic108]

Jonoslack:

1. I can say with confidence that the IQ from the M8 is better than the Pen.

2. I can say with confidence that the IQ from the X1 is better than the Pen with a Leica lens mounted.

3. I cannot say with confidence that the X1's IQ is that much better then the Pen's if a dedicated lens is used on the Pen i.e 20mm pancake lens.

4. The original poster is asking about mounting Leica lenses on the Pen and would the Pen's IQ be the equal of the M8 if mounted with the same Leica lens. The answer is that no the IQ would not be a match given the same lens used. There are problems with using Leica lenses on the Pen.

5. Unfortunately at the moment there is no cheap alternative if you want an interchangeable lens RF system. The cheapest option is a second-hand M8. Obviously the X1 has no interchangeable lens and so probably does not fit the needs of the OP in any case.

[AGeoJO]

The way I look at it - the problem with having an M8 as a backup camera to your M9 is that the lenses will need IR-cut filters on the first but not on the later. My understanding is keeping the filter on may introduce weird colors on the M9. I like the idea of using a M 4/3 camera that can take 1 or 2 Leica M lenses for more tele shots and the in-body IS is also appealing.

[jonoslack]

I fully agree. It will give you better IQ, including nicer JPG colors, sharpness and high ISO than M8. Especially with 20mm lens, also 7-14mm and 45mm are very good. Focusing distance is much more closer. You can observe on line AF and framing - no guessing, front focus, back focus.

 

Only and just M9 - makes the deal, makes the difference.

 

Do not listen closed people, who only belive in Leica and do not see external world.

 

If you listen people who had both in their hands - PEN will give much more better IQ in most (not all) situations. M8 is a test phase product, sth released in half of the way before FF. Forget need of IR filters, poorer resolution, poorer JPG results and many others.

 

I also considered this way. When I saw results from M8 of my firend - I would never buy it, even for half of price.

 

I decided to buy M9. And I know all existing bodies and lenses from u43 very good.

 

PS: you should ask the same question on non Leica portal - you will receive more real answers. Here you can get very, very often close minded answers, like advices of using Leica lenses, even if corresponding Zeiss is better - most often from people who use Leica for years, and never had Zeiss lens attached...

 

HI Jerry

Having supported the Pen against the X1, I'm now going to support the M8, which, with filters will produce excellent images with an acuity and crispness that can't be got from any camera with an AA filter.

 

Why is it necessary to slag off either of them? the Pen is very versatile - a lovely camera, both the M8 and the X1 have their advantages too. IMHO the choice between the 3 would be much more to do with functionality and practicality and ergonomics than IQ.

[jonoslack]

HI Logic108

Jonoslack:

1. I can say with confidence that the IQ from the M8 is better than the Pen.

I didn't comment on this - only with reference to the X1 and the Pen

2. I can say with confidence that the IQ from the X1 is better than the Pen with a Leica lens mounted.

If you are talking about wide angle leica lenses then I'd agree (as I actually stated above) if you're talking about longer focal lengths they I radically disagree.

3. I cannot say with confidence that the X1's IQ is that much better then the Pen's if a dedicated lens is used on the Pen i.e 20mm pancake lens.

Then you shouldn't have said:

I for one would consider the X1 and future derivatives but as of today the Olympus is way behind in IQ.

4. The original poster is asking about mounting Leica lenses on the Pen and would the Pen's IQ be the equal of the M8 if mounted with the same Leica lens. The answer is that no the IQ would not be a match given the same lens used. There are problems with using Leica lenses on the Pen.

Again - it depends on the lens

5. Unfortunately at the moment there is no cheap alternative if you want an interchangeable lens RF system. The cheapest option is a second-hand M8. Obviously the X1 has no interchangeable lens and so probably does not fit the needs of the OP in any case.

Well, I do agree, but my argument was against your absolute and unconditional writing off of the image quality of the Pen - which, although not a rangefinder, does pretty well as a backup, with the advantages of being useable for both macro and telephoto.

[diogenis]

HI There . . . oof, what a question!

I've had both, and I kept the Pen, because I prefer the colour (may be imaginary) and I like the body and handling better and I didn't need the popup flash. On the other hand, the focusing is not as fast (it's as accurate I think). The real big deal for me though is the IS in body with the Olympus and not with the GF1, which is relevant if you're sticking a 50 lux on it.

 

I'm more impressed with the panasonic lenses though (20mm f1.7 pancake seems marginally better than the Olympus 17 f2.8).

 

I don't think there is a 'rational' answer to this question! So my preference is emotional.

exactly... it itches me lol.

lack of flash, slower autofocus, but IS in the body + that VF! very versatile! on one,

lack of VF, but better LCD and faster AF, but noisier shutter and I think its also a bit bigger and not that elegant for the other ... At least they should have given us the VF of the g1

[Logic108]

From what I have seen of the Olympus Pen it seems like a very capable camera. However with or without a Leica lens on front it does not seem to have that 'Leica wow' that I have seen from my M8 and from images of the X1.

I subscribe to Sean Reid's site and having read his X1 review would agree with him about how good the IQ from the X1 is. Good in the sense that when an image from this cameras pops up in Lightroom I say 'wow'. But this is all subjective in any case. I'm sure you get that feeling from the Pen.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[250swb]

Isn't one aspect of a budget backup camera that would make it useful, as opposed to being left in the drawer, is that it could do some things the main camera can't, fill in the gaps so to speak? The M8 doesn't add anything in this respect, its the same as the M9 in essence, but with a crop factor and filters to take off and put on again when changing from one to the other.

 

The IQ of the Olympus, or Panasonic, isn't bad, it does nice colours, the resolution is excellent with Leica (35mm up) or the kit lenses, and it has extra tricks that the M9 can't hope to match. Like video, like image stabilisation even with your Leica lens mounted, like the ability to use a 45-200mm lens (90-400 equivalent), like ability for doing macro, etc. All these things are what the M9 can't do effectively, so why double up the ineffectiveness of that by buying an M8?

 

The EP-2 isn't an M9 and could never compete for ultimate IQ, but neither should it be the butt of eliteist sneering because ultimate IQ isn't much good if you don't have the varied tools to do the job.

 

Steve