rob3rt5 Posted January 18, 2010 Share #1 Posted January 18, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Let's say that flash duration and f-stop are the controlling factors in freezing action and limiting exposure during a strobe enhanced studio session. In other words, if your flash duration is shorter than the speed at which your subject moves and your f-stop is high enough, one could control the amount of exposure and freeze movement in the frame being taken at a fairly close shooting distance. I would like to know which lens (I'd love it if were Leica-M but, would like to know even if it wasn't) has the highest f-stop and can be mounted on the M9 and recognized/used by the camera without damaging the sensor. I also understand without being told that high f-stops are the domain of medium to large format lenses. I guess I'm looking for creative limitations within and without the Leica M9- how much can I do with this camera within it's limits. Thank you all for your patience and interest in this creative process. I look forward to hearing you thoughts my friends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Hi rob3rt5, Take a look here Lens with the largest f-stop for M9...any make. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
scc Posted January 18, 2010 Share #2 Posted January 18, 2010 F-stop is not a controlling factor in freezing action, shutter speed is. In saying that, a wider aperture (and higher ISO) will allow you to use faster shutter speeds and help to freeze action. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2010 Share #3 Posted January 18, 2010 He is talking about stroboscopic flash, where a large aperture has the shortest flash duration. The answer is obviously the Noctilux 0.95. Or are you talking about the smallest f-stop, to make the background as dark as possible? In that case it would stop at f 16. However, it would be better to use a ND filter and move the aperture out of the diffraction zone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 18, 2010 Share #4 Posted January 18, 2010 The OP doesn't mention 'stroboscopic' flash. My take on the rather unclear question is that the OP is looking for the lens with the smallest aperture setting on a lens that will fit the lens mount. I'm not sure offhand but I think one or more of the M line goes down to F22 (90 APO and the 90 Macro?) but no M mount lens is going to offer anything like the F64 and F128 you can get with larger format lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2010 Share #5 Posted January 18, 2010 The 90 Apo has 16 as smallest aperture. That was why I suggested a ND filter. Maybe a 4x or even 16x. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob3rt5 Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share #6 Posted January 18, 2010 In stroboscopic photography one needs a low apature (f/22, f/28, f/64) to limit and control the light reaching the sensor. The exposure is controlled by the apature because one's synch speed limits time. If an object moves at 32 feet per second without assistance one needs a flash duration in the 1/1000-2000 sec range to freeze motion faster than free-fall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob3rt5 Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share #7 Posted January 18, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't think that a neutral density filter will decrease the time that the shutter takes to close as a very small f/stop would. The smaller the opening in the lens the quicker the exposure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH1962 Posted January 18, 2010 Share #8 Posted January 18, 2010 Rather interesting suject! One can indeed totally freeze most moving object with a short flash duration, and as long as there is no ambient light around, one can ignore the shutter speed as long as the shutter opens completely. Whit the M9 that can be anything longer than indicated on the dial. With studio flash equipment (broncolor for instance) one can alredy reach quite short flash durations, some years back it was 1/6000s t0.1 (so, the total flash duration). With that I remember that depending the lightshaper used, the resulting f-stop was rather limited already. It was rarely a problem having too much light... If you need shorter flash duration, you would need either a small handheld computerflash or specific equipment - but these are limiting the f-stop even more... What F-stop do you aim at? Can you tell a bit more about your task? rgds JPH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2010 Share #9 Posted January 18, 2010 Sorry- you've lost me completely here. The shutter time is the shutter time, and if you put the camera on AE it is determined by the amount of light entering the camera. How that amount is determined is of absolutely no importance, whether aperture or ND filter. But when you are using flash, the amount of light striking the sensor is NOT determined by shutterspeed, but by aperture/ND filter and flash output only. (except if you choose such a long shutterspeed that ambient light becomes a factor). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scc Posted January 18, 2010 Share #10 Posted January 18, 2010 I don't think that a neutral density filter will decrease the time that the shutter takes to close as a very small f/stop would. The smaller the opening in the lens the quicker the exposure. I'm very confused here. Don't you mean the larger the opening in the lens the quicker the exposure? Ie its letting more light in, therefore correct exposure of the film is achieved in a faster time? Besides, shutter speed will be fixed with a flash sync anyway won't it? If you need to reduce light flux on the sensor, then use aperture, when you run out of aperture, add ND filter to reduce the light even more.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scc Posted January 18, 2010 Share #11 Posted January 18, 2010 Sorry- you've lost me completely here. The shutter time is the shutter time, and if you put the camera on AE it is determined by the amount of light entering the camera. How that amount is determined is of absolutely no importance, whether aperture or ND filter. But when you are using flash, the amount of light striking the sensor is NOT determined by shutterspeed, but by aperture/ND filter and flash output only. (except if you choose such a long shutterspeed that ambient light becomes a factor). That makes perfect sense to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2010 Share #12 Posted January 18, 2010 It is simple, there are two things running through one another here. The OP seems to think ( correct me if I am wrong) that strobe exposure is determined by shutterspeed -which it is not- and that somehow there is a difference in EV between using an ND filter vs. closing down the aperture-which, again, is not the case. The shutterspeed is extemely long - minimally 1/180th compared to the strobe flash from 1/1000th to 1/10.000th or shorter, depending on the setup, so it is of no importance in freezing the motion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH1962 Posted January 18, 2010 Share #13 Posted January 18, 2010 forgot: the 135 2.8 that can be found used very easy closes down to 32... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob3rt5 Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share #14 Posted January 18, 2010 JPH1962 has got my drift. I want to use a Broncolor strobe with my M9 and not get motion blur and after looking at the charts and specs I realized that if the flash is quite close to the subject and one is using a large source light (Para w/ diffuser) one needs a rather small f/stop (f/22-64?) to control motion blur. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scc Posted January 18, 2010 Share #15 Posted January 18, 2010 While we are here, when using flash on the M9 what shutter speeds will sync? It is only 1/125th or something isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob3rt5 Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share #16 Posted January 18, 2010 How many degree field of view does the 135 have. How far away from the subject will I have to be in order to achieve a normal field of view (or useable FOV) let's say for portraiture? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob3rt5 Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share #17 Posted January 18, 2010 I do think the synch speed is something like 1/125. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH1962 Posted January 18, 2010 Share #18 Posted January 18, 2010 well, do you use a pack like the Pulso A4 or similar? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob3rt5 Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share #19 Posted January 18, 2010 Was doing the research to buy the right pack for my only camera left (M9). Just sold my Hasselblad H3D-39 to fund it's purchase. I was looking at the A2 or a small Briese maybe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2010 Share #20 Posted January 18, 2010 Sync speed is 1/180th Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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