viramati Posted January 16, 2010 Share #1 Posted January 16, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) the M9's AWB is terrible compared to the the 8.2. have contacted leica and hope that it gets sorted in the next firmware update. 1st image is 8.2 imported into LR 2.6 (zeiss biagon 25) 2nd image M9 imported into LR 2.6 (35 cron) It's a real pain!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 Hi viramati, Take a look here AWB in tungsten. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted January 16, 2010 Share #2 Posted January 16, 2010 Yes-it is known...See seven previous threads.... two seconds in ACR...This may more accurate than either. The 8.2 is too red, the 9 is too yellow. I don't know which is worse, to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylgreenhill Posted January 17, 2010 Share #3 Posted January 17, 2010 Yes, I have contacted Leica USA to mention that I find that my Leica M8's image on its rear-panel monitor handles indoor tungsten much better than the M9's rear panel screen. The M9's rear-monitor screen in AWB shows a green-yellow cast if shot in the same room. The rear panel image on the M9 is a JPEG generated from the compressed DNG image being taken, and the on camera JPEG shows the yellow-green and noise in the shadows at 1/1250 second on my M9. The room is illuminated by the new energy-saving compact flourescent lamp bulbs, that are very difficult for a camera to capture. These bulbs emit different light frequencies, and also pulse. The image histograqm will show underexposure if the shutter is set at a fast speed and is out of synch with the bulb. I need to shoot all indoor pictures in compressed DNG, and then fix them later in photoshop. Usually selecting AWB in Photoshop CS4 fixes the problem. A Leica product manager at the New Jersey USA headquarters helped me by analyzing my DNG images in PhotoMe, which analyzed the spectrum of the image as shot and rendered a histograms that were almost identical for the same image shot with my M8 and M9. The M9 was somewhat shifted to the left on the historgram. He mentioned that Leica was testing other AWB algorithms for the M9, and hopefully we all will be able to use them soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 17, 2010 Share #4 Posted January 17, 2010 Strangely, the M9 handles halogen light quite well on AWB. So there is obviously a limit somewhere between 3200K (halogen) and 2400--2600K (tungsten, depending on wattage). In the EU, tungsten bulbs are being phased out. Matte bulbs are already proscribed. The fluorescent bulbs that replace them produce a lemon-yellow image on AWB. Here, the only remedy is to make a manual WB with good quality bulbs, and incorporate it into a user profile. Precision work will entail manual WB in each specific situation, as different brands can vary a bit, just like strip light fluorescents, and for the same reason. The ordinary fluorescent settings of the M9 are not applicable to fluorescent bulbs. These bulbs will probably be replaced by LED bulbs fairly soon, causing a new round of problems ... The old man from the Age of Kerosene Lamps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share #5 Posted January 17, 2010 Luckily I only shoot in RAW (DNG) so things can be sorted pretty easily in LR2 but I still hope they can get this a little better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted January 17, 2010 Share #6 Posted January 17, 2010 Well, what bothers me is that ever since I got the M9 I have noticed that the M8 is either more sensitive to light or has more contrast in low light conditions. This does not make sense to me since the M9 sensor is "in theory" superior to that of the M8. Looking at your pictures is see that not only the WB is off but if both pictures where taken at the same aperture and speed I see more details on the M8. Can you give us apertures and speeds? This is actually the first thing that struck me when doing my first shots. I found the low-light pictures to be somewhat dark and shooting at speeds of 1/15th of a second much more blurry than on the M8. Again, I have not done proper controlled test so I am only going by first impressions. I also have the impression that this is related to the software and the AWB problem. I am confident that it will be resolved sooner than later. Too bad that my M9 will take several weeks to come back so until then I will not be able to conduct proper tests and compare them both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted January 17, 2010 Share #7 Posted January 17, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) It was quite apparent from the first few shots upon receiving my M9 that the colors could be improved. Using the Spyder Cube as my reference in some shots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 17, 2010 Share #8 Posted January 17, 2010 Many of us found that the M8 exposed a little bit too generously, about 1/3 of an f-stop over. The M9 tends to be right on. Maybe this is at the root of your problem? The old man from the Age of Kerosene Lamps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted January 17, 2010 Share #9 Posted January 17, 2010 Many of us found that the M8 exposed a little bit too generously, about 1/3 of an f-stop over. The M9 tends to be right on. Maybe this is at the root of your problem? The old man from the Age of Kerosene Lamps Yes, this is what I though. Although I set my M at -2/3 EV when shooting in low light conditions. The idea is for the shot to look like it is in low light and not to over expose and make it look like you are in daylight. I wonder why I need to correct always in low light. Happens in all cameras by the way. A trick I use is to save a special low-light setting in B&W. -2/3 EV, Auto ISO up to 1250 and lens dependent. Great combo. The noise is obviously none and the grain is negligible up to ISO 640. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share #10 Posted January 17, 2010 Hi Have dumped the original files as I was just trying to show the AWB to the forum so I don't have shutter info. Anyway I wasn't even really concentrating on focus etc as that wasn't what I was trying to demonstrate. Anyway Just for the hell of it here is AWB with dlux 4 with firmware 2.2 which is better than a £4850 M9 but thats life!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoody Posted January 17, 2010 Share #11 Posted January 17, 2010 If you shoot indoors, the Exopdisc (or one of its cheaper alternatives which I have not tried) is a *must* for jpgs or speeding-up raw workflow. Select manual white balance from the SET button menu, hold the disc in front of the lens, press the shutter button, and it's done. After the first time, it's really fast because you just press "SET" three times, hold up the disc, and press the shutter button each time you want to reset the white balance. Here is the result from my first time trying it. The light is properly white balanced and the shade is properly colored. (taken with the M9 -- temperature: 2350, tint: +5 out of camera) The results are so much better than the AWB of any camera I've owned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share #12 Posted January 18, 2010 Somewhat surprising reply from SOLMs Dear Mr. Sampson, The M9 AWB failing in tungsten light is knowing issue, but there are no plans for change something yet. Sorry. Mit freundlichen Gruessen / kind regards Konstantin Eisner Leica Camera AG Informationsservice Software Support Gewerbepark 8 / D-35606 Solms / Germany Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2010 Share #13 Posted January 18, 2010 It is a bit garbled by trying to answer in English, I guess, but I think we might attempt to translate it as follows: "We have a list of needed firmware updates but other items have a higher priority" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share #14 Posted January 19, 2010 Have received a clearer response so it seems a fix is on the way but not in the next firmware update Dear Mr. Sampson, As we had several complaints about that in the last weeks we have to admit that there is a very weak point in the AWB algorithm. During the field test we had no complaints about that, this is why we released it like this. But of course, we started to investigate and plan to implement an improvement in the firmware. Unfortunately this improvement will not be in the next update which is more or less finished, so it will take a little while until we release the next one. That was the reason for the information, that we have no plans for changing something yet. Sorry for my mistakable response. Until then take care when energy saving lamps are around and better set the camera to a fixed WB in that case. Mit freundlichen Gruessen / kind regards Konstantin Eisner Leica Camera AG Informationsservice Software Support Gewerbepark 8 / D-35606 Solms / Germany Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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