M9 availability, laughable in Finland

[bayerische]

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I'm getting fast tired of waiting for the M9. No I haven't ordered one, just because ordering one and maybe putting in a deposit and waiting for months isn't exactly great...

 

The M9 was released 9.9.2009, today it's 14.1.2010, and only a few (the first demo models for the importer) has been sold. I was offered one at the launch, but it was grey, and I want a black one.

 

Sorry for the rant, but how can it take so long? I remember the M8 took just under a year to get to Finland... It's laughable.

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[jaapv]

These is the Internet era, why restrict yourself to Finland?

[bayerische]

Jaap, It's my company that will buy it, and I ofcourse want the VAT reduction... Yes I know some companies in the EU might sell it to me VAT 0%, but most don't...

[Nicoleica]

Jaap, It's my company that will buy it, and I ofcourse want the VAT reduction... Yes I know some companies in the EU might sell it to me VAT 0%, but most don't...

 

Surely your company can order it from another EU country? You would then be charged VAT at the point of sale, and could then claim this back. Or, if your company has an exemption certificate, then I believe that the vendor should accept this within the EU. (You'll need to check your country's particular rules on this, but it applies to most articles and countries.)

[chris_tribble]

Sounds as if that makes sense.

[ianman]

Why is it laughable ? You say yourself that you have ordered one ! Of course they are going to satisfy existing orders before just sending units randomly hoping for customers.

 

And being offered a grey one at launch is hardly laughable... there are probably hundreds of people who would have jumped at the opportunity !

 

Ian

[diogenis]

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If you shop from any company within EU, you can ask to pay the VAT in your country instead. It is a normal intraEU procedure.

[jonoslack]

Hi There

Actually - if you buy from another EU company and you are VAT registered then you don't need to pay VAT at all. Generally speaking you simply have to give your VAT number to the company you are buying from and they will not charge you VAT.

Simple as that.

You need to report you EU zero VAT purchases and sales at the end of the VAT period, but nothing else.

[bayerische]

Surely your company can order it from another EU country? You would then be charged VAT at the point of sale, and could then claim this back. Or, if your company has an exemption certificate, then I believe that the vendor should accept this within the EU. (You'll need to check your country's particular rules on this, but it applies to most articles and countries.)

 

Oh, I know how this works... I can't claim this back, where would I claim it? If I bought the camera in ie Germany, I would have to claim it back from germany. Usually VAT is deducted from the price in the country where the VAT is charged, if you can provide a valid VAT number, which I can obviously, but still many (read most) vendors don't do this, cause it makes them a lot of extra paperwork...

[bayerische]

Why is it laughable ? You say yourself that you have ordered one ! Of course they are going to satisfy existing orders before just sending units randomly hoping for customers.

 

And being offered a grey one at launch is hardly laughable... there are probably hundreds of people who would have jumped at the opportunity !

 

Ian

 

Thanks for the nice reply Ian...

 

I didn't want a Grey colored one.

 

Finland is a very small country, there's not hundreds of M9's being sold here. The now gone premier Leica dealer in Finland, from where I bought my M9, delivered his first M8 only a few months before I bought my M8 back in august of 2007... To me this is laughable, I'm not saying it's Leicas fault, Finland is clearly a very small market for Leica, so better take care of the big-boys first.

[bayerische]

If you shop from any company within EU, you can ask to pay the VAT in your country instead. It is a normal intraEU procedure.

 

A company doesn't have to pay the VAT when buying something from another EU country.

 

VAT (Value added tax) only works within a country.

 

The day when my company sell the M9 on to another company or consumer I would have to pay VAT. Price of my product + VAT. As long as goods that had VAT from the beginning is traded (whit-in) a country between companies the VAT stays.

[markku]

bayerische,

 

you're not alone;)

 

I am on one waiting list in Finland as well. I didn't want to buy the offered demo units either. My reason wasn't the gray color which I would have wanted but the fact that this Leica stuff is just my hobby and couldn't take risk of having two; Leica M8 and M9.

 

Well then I managed to sell M8 and my Swarovski tele scope and M4 and 28mm lens to finance M9. Adds up pretty evenly but long is the time when you need to wait and wait.

 

I waited for the M8 for 9 months. If you're lucky you may get a baby in the same time. I was just loyal then to my dealer who I knew wouldn't sell much of those cameras.

 

Now I've been waiting since October my grey M9, we'll see if I get it before my first borne baby. Due date is on Monday;D

 

/Markku

[Nicoleica]

Oh, I know how this works... I can't claim this back, where would I claim it? If I bought the camera in ie Germany, I would have to claim it back from germany. Usually VAT is deducted from the price in the country where the VAT is charged, if you can provide a valid VAT number, which I can obviously, but still many (read most) vendors don't do this, cause it makes them a lot of extra paperwork...

 

Please forgive me if I am wrong, but in reading your replies it looks as though you are trying to find obstacles and problems where none need to exist. With certain exceptions, if you purchase from any company within the EU, and supply your VAT number, they should supply the goods ex-vat. Most larger companies are fully prepared to handle this without any problems. I write mainly accounting software for a living, and so I am fully aware of how this works. (And believe me, European VAT rules and calculations are a lot simpler than US sales tax rules.) Even if the dealer does decide to charge you at source, you can reclaim that from the VAT authority of that country upon production of your registration number. You will then be subject to VAT in your country, but as you have your registration number for that country, you shouldn't have to pay anything unless it is for personal use.

[Bo_Lorentzen]

Finland is not THAT small a market, I was just made aware that there is at least 2 M9 cameras in greenland, now THAT is a small market, I believe both owners imported from Denmark or other places, I do not expect to see a M9 on the counter in Godthåb.

 

.

[bayerische]

Finland is not THAT small a market, I was just made aware that there is at least 2 M9 cameras in greenland, now THAT is a small market, I believe both owners imported from Denmark or other places, I do not expect to see a M9 on the counter in Godthåb.

 

.

 

Good that you know Finland better than me.

 

OK, I won't pursue this thread any longer... No point really.

[bayerische]

I'll give you a bit of info on "volume", the largest retailer of digital cameras in Finland (by volume sold) has sofar sold 0 M9's. They have the sell/arriving goods history online. Non ordered, non arrived. Might give you an idea about the market size for M9's at the moment.

 

Why all the hostility??? (This point to a post that now is removed)

[ianman]

I'll give you a bit of info on "volume", the largest retailer of digital cameras in Finland (by volume sold) has sofar sold 0 M9's. They have the sell/arriving goods history online. Non ordered, non arrived. Might give you an idea about the market size for M9's at the moment.

 

Why all the hostility??? (This point to a post that now is removed)

 

Nobody is being hostile here, even me as you seemed to imply. I apologize if my post seemed hostile.

 

Personally I don't see what the problem is. You say you haven't ordered one, so how can you expect to get one when there are still thousands of people who have ordered and are still waiting ? You even say that the largest retailer in the country has not ordered any units. "None ordered, none arrived". Seems straightforward to me.

 

Ian

[matlep]

I'll give you a bit of info on "volume", the largest retailer of digital cameras in Finland (by volume sold) has sofar sold 0 M9's. They have the sell/arriving goods history online. Non ordered, non arrived. Might give you an idea about the market size for M9's at the moment.

 

Why all the hostility??? (This point to a post that now is removed)

 

I thought Rajala was the largest dealer in Finland? They have at least one confirmed delivery in the Delivery thread.

 

And they also have a confirmed delivery in Sweden in the same thread.

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[bayerische]

I thought Rajala was the largest dealer in Finland? They have at least one confirmed delivery in the Delivery thread.

 

And they also have a confirmed delivery in Sweden in the same thread.

 

I thought so too, but according to importers Verkkokauppa.com is now the leader...

[bayerische]

Nobody is being hostile here, even me as you seemed to imply. I apologize if my post seemed hostile.

 

Personally I don't see what the problem is. You say you haven't ordered one, so how can you expect to get one when there are still thousands of people who have ordered and are still waiting ? You even say that the largest retailer in the country has not ordered any units. "None ordered, none arrived". Seems straightforward to me.

 

Ian

 

Ian, there was a post removed, probably by moderators...

 

I haven't ordered one, that's true, today I contacted "Rajala" and they can't even give me a delivery estimate, even though it says 3-6 weeks on their homepage... I think it's wrong advertising 3-6 weeks when the reality is probably closer to 3-6 months.

 

This verkkokauppa.com store usually keeps a big stock of things, so do Rajala. High-end stuff is available off the shelf. Once there's M9's available both stores will most likely keep M9's in stock all the time, just as they did and still do with the M8. Thus my conclusion that there is none available for the finnish market, "to just walk in and buy". Is this possible elsewhere?