Summilux 24 Backfocus

[novice9]

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If the discrepancy is just the shimming of the lens, there is no problem. If floating elements are the cause, it is a different story.

 

well the 90 cron asph doesnt have floating elements (im pretty sure), so that would explain the difference.

[DennisK]

Just a small update: I brought the lens back to the dealer and they could tell immediately, that it's the lens which is at fault. They're sending it back and I either get a new one or this one repaired (whichever comes back to the shop first).

 

Should take about a week or so, so we'll see.

 

Dennis

[DennisK]

Another small update: Today I received my Nokton 35 1.2 which had been on order since december last year. It also exhibits Backfocus of around 4-5 cm at 1 Meter focusing distance. The rangefinder experience is not as troublefree as I had hoped it would be.

 

So now I'm still waiting for the 24mm Summilux to return (or be exchanged) and I guess I'll have to wait for the results. This is getting really frustrating. Asuming the 24 Summilux is spot on after repair (as is my 35mm Smmicron) how would I go about getting the Voigtländer fixed? There seems to be no direct company contact in Germany, only Ring Foto? Does anybody have experience with this kind of situation?

 

Dennis

[dpattinson]

Another small update: Today I received my Nokton 35 1.2 which had been on order since december last year. It also exhibits Backfocus of around 4-5 cm at 1 Meter focusing distance. The rangefinder experience is not as troublefree as I had hoped it would be.

 

So now I'm still waiting for the 24mm Summilux to return (or be exchanged) and I guess I'll have to wait for the results. This is getting really frustrating. Asuming the 24 Summilux is spot on after repair (as is my 35mm Smmicron) how would I go about getting the Voigtländer fixed? There seems to be no direct company contact in Germany, only Ring Foto? Does anybody have experience with this kind of situation?

 

Dennis

 

Have you checked the camera? I had a back-focusing 50 f1.4 asph, and a back-focusing M8 body. Several of my other lenses seemed OK, and still do now after the body has been adjusted.

[DennisK]

Well, I went back to the dealer (Meister) and he said, he could easily see the same backfocus in the 24 Summilux mounted on the shop's M9, so the assumption was, that my M9 body was ok and the lens was out. When the 24 comes back we'll see if that was the case.

 

I guess to be absolutely sure about the viewfinder calibration I'd have to send the whole package to Solms. After *that* I could send the Nokton to wherever the Voigtländer lenses are calibrated (does anybody know?).

 

It's a little insane really. I want to have a properly working system with 3 lenses (18mm, fast 24mm and fast 35mm). I pay through my nose for gadgets that come with signed QC certificates and a stupid 5cm backfocus in two cases is all the system can come up with?

 

Dennis

[dpattinson]

Well, I went back to the dealer (Meister) and he said, he could easily see the same backfocus in the 24 Summilux mounted on the shop's M9, so the assumption was, that my M9 body was ok and the lens was out. When the 24 comes back we'll see if that was the case.

 

I guess to be absolutely sure about the viewfinder calibration I'd have to send the whole package to Solms. After *that* I could send the Nokton to wherever the Voigtländer lenses are calibrated (does anybody know?).

 

It's a little insane really. I want to have a properly working system with 3 lenses (18mm, fast 24mm and fast 35mm). I pay through my nose for gadgets that come with signed QC certificates and a stupid 5cm backfocus in two cases is all the system can come up with?

 

Dennis

 

Well - without further tests on the shop M9 (which may have been done) there's still a fairly significant chance it's the camera and that both cameras are out. Certainly when I was dealing with the back-focus on my M8 there were plenty of bodies with similar issues.

 

As you said, I guess you will find out when the lens returns

 

Once it's all working, you'll quickly forget the teething issues.

[DennisK]

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Thanks for the replies so far and for putting up with my frustration :-) Here's another small update for those interested:

 

I called Leica about the fact that the 35 f/1.2 Nokton shows the same backfocus as the Summilux and whether it may be the camera's fault after all. They told me that I should have sent in the camera with the lens anyway so that they could match them. When I suggested that the proper procedure would be to calibrate the camera against a reference and then the lens agains a reference he replied, that they always prefer to adjust fast lenses (1.4 and faster) to specific cameras. It's also their experience that once a camera and a 1.4 lens are matched, then further 1.4 lenses (in my case, a future 35mm Summilux) will fit as well. How that works is a little beyond me but it's their call.

 

So I went to the shop again to send in the camera. At the shop they told me, that Leica had already received the 24 Summilux and could verify the backfocus (which begs the question, why they sent it out in that state a week earlier with a qc cewrtificate - but I digress). They couldn't find fault with the focussing action though - while the people at meister agreed that the focussing action was stiff and uneven.

 

At the shop we also tested the Voigtländer on another M9 and it exhibited the exact same backfocus there. It seems quite likely that the cameras are calbirated correctly and the lenses are both off. We'll see when the package returns from Solms.

 

As far as the Nokton goes: I called the German distribution (Ring Foto) and they told me, they' only be able to calibrate the camera to the lens (!!). They could also not see what should be wrong with that procedure... oh well. At any rate they'd have to send the lens to Japan to get it fixed. So I packed the lens in and sent it back today. I'd really like to give the 35 1.2 Nokton another try but not via mailorder. It would be nice to have a dealer in Berlin who stocks Voigtländer, but since Leica terminated business with all local camera shots except Meister they all stopped carrying M-mount lenses.

 

Anway. I'm sure it'll be all good in the end when my system is ready and working, but it REALLY shouldn't be so hard considering the money involved.

 

Dennis

[jaapv]

Well, I went back to the dealer (Meister) and he said, he could easily see the same backfocus in the 24 Summilux mounted on the shop's M9, so the assumption was, that my M9 body was ok and the lens was out. When the 24 comes back we'll see if that was the case.

 

I guess to be absolutely sure about the viewfinder calibration I'd have to send the whole package to Solms. After *that* I could send the Nokton to wherever the Voigtländer lenses are calibrated (does anybody know?).

 

It's a little insane really. I want to have a properly working system with 3 lenses (18mm, fast 24mm and fast 35mm). I pay through my nose for gadgets that come with signed QC certificates and a stupid 5cm backfocus in two cases is all the system can come up with?

 

Dennis

 

Kameraservice can calibrate CV lenses http://www.kamera-service.info/

[DennisK]

Thanks so much, Jaap! I've just been on the phone with them and they can calibrate the Nokton (and 6-bit code it, too). I'll wait for the camera to return from Solms now and then send the Nokton to Kamera-Service. Thanks again!

 

Dennis

 

 

Kameraservice can calibrate CV lenses index.html

[Samir Jahjah]

I've just come home with a very expensive 24mm Summilux and on my M9 there's a distinct backfocus. It's also quite severe with 5-6cm at 1 meter focusing distance which makes it useless for close portraits among other things. Now, what do I do now? My 35mm Summicron focuses perfectly so I assume it's not the camera but actually the lens. So here are a few questions:

 

1) Do I have to send the camera in or can the store where I bought it (Meister-Camera, Berlin) fix this problem?

 

2) If I have to send it in, do I have to send the camera as well? How long does that take?

 

3) Is there a way to calibrate the lens myself?

 

This is pretty annoying for a 5000,- Euro lens and I'd rather not be without the camera for a long time. Any ideas on how to procede?

 

Thanks in advance,

Dennis

 

 

Sorry to hear you are having problems with your 24mm Lux, which otherwise is a truly amazing lens. Always ask to take a few shots with the lens on your body if you have the chance to shop directly with your dealer. I have not seen yet a dealer refusing to let me do so.

 

Back in December I was shopping for a 24mm Lux and a 50mm Lux. The 24mm was readily available in the three Leica dealers I visited. Each time I would ask to try the lens on my M9. First dealer, its 24mm showed some focusing problem; second dealer, its 24mm was spot on (bring your laptop with you, don t rely of the LCD screen of the camera). Before deciding, the dealer even let me use the lens for an hour in its neighborhood - in the evening I had checked the images and the lens was mine.

 

For the 50mm Lux, it was only available in one store... On my M9, its focusing was off.

 

So my advise is to just ask to try the lens at the dealer on your M8/9.

[Guest mc_k]

...he replied, that they always prefer to adjust fast lenses (1.4 and faster) to specific cameras. It's also their experience that once a camera and a 1.4 lens are matched, then further 1.4 lenses (in my case, a future 35mm Summilux) will fit as well. How that works is a little beyond me but it's their call...

 

Matching a lens and body implies leaving each with an error to cancel... assuming a standard. Maybe this is as good as it gets; I don't know.

 

Just having your camera calibrated closer to a standard, and the more statistically likely it will match some future lens.

[DennisK]

Just a short update on the situation as I'm too angry to type right now...

 

The 24 Summilux is back as is my M9 and 35 cron ASPH, which I also sent in because Leica Solms insisted to have the camera body and I wanted to get the 35 coded.

 

Results:

 

1) The Summilux focuses fine now.

 

2) The Summicron, which was PERFECT when I got it now has a backfocus.

 

3) The viewfinder, which was PERFECTLY aligned, when I got the M9 is now vertically misaligned.

 

4) The second Nokton 35, which I bought from a member of this form and which arrived in the meantime now has the same backfocus as the Summicron.

 

All of this suggests the following:

 

A) Summicron and 2nd Nokton are probably properly adjusted but can't be focused anymore because the rangefinder is now out, thanks to Leica.

 

The rangefinder WAS properly adjusted before and now it isn't anymore in order to accomodate the 24mm Summilux, which itself still isn't properly adjusted.

 

C) On the way they also managed to botch the vertical alignment of the viewfinder.

 

I'm at a loss for words... On a positive note it's important to mention, that Meister Camera, from whom I bought the equipment, have offered me first class service and were very concerned, to get the matter resolved ASAP.

 

Still, what am I supposed to do now? Give up on Leica Solms and send the whole package to kamera-service in Holland? Give up photography all together? Go kill a puppy?

 

Any ideas or pointer would be appreciated muchly!

 

Thanks,

Dennis

[batmobile]

This is the danger of messing with bodies to match lenses. Bodies should be adjusted to a standard and that stadard should be adhered to by all lenses. Its very unfortunate what has happened and I am amazed Leica has been this daft. They should have ensured that the body was at the right standard and that the lenses focused correctly.

 

I have ordered a 24 Lux and the seller is going to test the lens to ensure I get one that is accurate to a standard. If there are problems I will have no hesitation returning it because I do not have the time or patience to go down the backwards and forwards through the post route. As said before, its one thing if it is a minor adjustment and quite another if there is some problem with the floating elements judging by some unresolvable issues with 50 lux asphs and 75s. I would have thought they had been making these long enough to get them right now. Its a shame you can spend $6k (though they are being discounted) and get a lens that blatantly does not focus correctly. THIS is a large portion of what you pay that money for: tested, perfect out of the box performance.

[ho_co]

... Does this also mean that lenses with floating elements are more likely to go out of whack if you go on a long trip with lots of plane rides, bumpy roads etc., etc? ...

Peter, I don't think floating elements are any more likely than the rest of the lens to be messed up by maltreatment, and certainly are no cause for worry in the situations you name.

 

Take a look at some of the construction photos of Leica lenses to see how the floating elements are mounted. They are usually very small and light, but are firmly mounted in their own helicoid, which moves differentially to the main ones.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the only 'problem' the presence of focusing elements is likely to cause is a difference in the smoothness of the focusing ring, because you're turning an additional helicoid.

 

 

Dennis, I'm amazed and disappointed by the incompetent level of service you got in this case. You have every right to be upset.

 

I would place a phone call to Stefan Daniel about the matter, with transaction numbers at the ready. This isn't the kind of thing that should simply disappear into the service department as "just another re-do." And you might want to reference this thread as well, not because we know anything, but to illustrate how such a concatenation of errors goes down.

 

 

And (sigh) do keep us posted.

[Samir Jahjah]

Just a short update on the situation as I'm too angry to type right now...

 

The 24 Summilux is back as is my M9 and 35 cron ASPH, which I also sent in because Leica Solms insisted to have the camera body and I wanted to get the 35 coded.

 

Results:

 

1) The Summilux focuses fine now.

 

2) The Summicron, which was PERFECT when I got it now has a backfocus.

 

3) The viewfinder, which was PERFECTLY aligned, when I got the M9 is now vertically misaligned.

 

4) The second Nokton 35, which I bought from a member of this form and which arrived in the meantime now has the same backfocus as the Summicron.

 

All of this suggests the following:

 

A) Summicron and 2nd Nokton are probably properly adjusted but can't be focused anymore because the rangefinder is now out, thanks to Leica.

 

The rangefinder WAS properly adjusted before and now it isn't anymore in order to accomodate the 24mm Summilux, which itself still isn't properly adjusted.

 

C) On the way they also managed to botch the vertical alignment of the viewfinder.

 

I'm at a loss for words... On a positive note it's important to mention, that Meister Camera, from whom I bought the equipment, have offered me first class service and were very concerned, to get the matter resolved ASAP.

 

Still, what am I supposed to do now? Give up on Leica Solms and send the whole package to kamera-service in Holland? Give up photography all together? Go kill a puppy?

 

Any ideas or pointer would be appreciated muchly!

 

Thanks,

Dennis

 

 

Dennis this is so frustrating. At a minimum Leica should give you a loaner so you work/enjoy your hobby.

 

By the way, there was a time when Leica would add two small figures on the lens mount to tell the exact focal length: so you get a 50mm, and then on the side you could see 23, or 8 or 12, meaning the true focal length is 50.23, 50.08, or 50.12 respectively. I have not seen this on recent lenses. My 90mm shows a 10 for instance, but my 24mm lux or 35mm cron show no marking of this kind. This suggest there will always be a difference and always be a small margin of errors...which may seem unacceptable on your screen at 100 percent, but irrelevant on a print or jpeg gallery.

[DennisK]

Thanks all for the kind words of support - it really helps.

 

I was on the phone with Leica today (albeit not with Stephan Daniel) and they will pick up the camera together with my three lenses tomorrow (although it's not sure whether they will even touch the Nokton or not). Fingers crossed.

 

Dennis

[DOUG66]

Dennis,

I am sorry to read of your saga with back focus. I have been there too with a 50 cron

on an M8. As I had two other lenses which focused correctly I stopped short of sending

both body and lens back to Leica, as I guessed what might happen. I got the lens fixed

by Malcolm Taylor 0044 (0) 1568 770542

I have a chart for testing back/front focus, if you would like a copy to check your lens when

it is returned e-mail me your postal address to reidcrabtree@eircom.net and I will post you

a copy and instructions for use. It will not e-mail as it looses definition.

 

Doug.

[Guest mc_k]

...By the way, there was a time when Leica would add two small figures on the lens mount to tell the exact focal length...This suggest there will always be a difference and always be a small margin of errors...which may seem unacceptable on your screen at 100 percent, but irrelevant on a print or jpeg gallery.

 

I heard this was for matching pieces...does not imply an error or back/front focus.

[DennisK]

OK, hopefully the last update in this story: Today surprisingly the M9 and my lenses came back after a second 14-day roundtrip to Solms. The receipt said that they couldn't confirm the problems I reported (presumably referring to the misaligned finder, they also said so on the phone). But guess what? The finder is now SPOT ON vertically anyway. So either it got knocked over during transport and reset itself magically or they don't want to admit to fixing it (whcih would be very strange indeed). Either way, I'm happy as a clam with the viewfinder.

 

They also wrote that they wouldn't touch the Nokton - maybe they did anyway and if magically focuses correcrtly now :-) I'll check the lenses later today and will report my findings. I'm really hopeful that the second trip to Solms rectified the issues.

 

Dennis

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[DennisK]

Well, see for yourself. 35 'cron and 24 'lux are perfect now (the 24 focuses tiny bit behind, but in practical use it won't be of any significance. The chart is much more precise in actual resolution and without the compression from uploading, btw.).

 

The Nokton is still backfocusing a solid 2cm though, which makes sense as they really didn't touch it at all. I guess, my best bet is to not touch the Leica stuff again and have the Nokton adjusted to the M9 in its current state. Does anybody have experience with this workshop:

 

Fotomechanik Reinhardt

 

Do you think, they can fix the Nokton?

 

Dennis, who is ALMOST there ;-)

 

 

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