I'm obsessed with this camera

[h00ligan]

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well i haven't even seen a body that inexpensive used frankly. I'm not sure where you're looking - maybe it's euros

[Bo_Lorentzen]

Hmmm. I did not do actual research on this, but did just finish reading a thread where one guy claimed M8's would hit $1000 in months, personally I figure he is wrong, but I was thinking that one could find about $2000-2400. specially since a friend of mine picked one up for $2500 in spring of 2009...

 

.

[h00ligan]

definitely food for thought.

 

I was sad today not to have my dlux 4 with me in the situation in which i found myself (posted in the digital forum).... and angry that I couldn't do more to record the moment. Perhaps an m8 or x1 would have been better, perhaps not.. it's something on which I must think... it may just be that I stink at photog and further investment is futile.

 

I get very frustrated by my inability - it's possible I feel the x1 would be a better cam for situations like the one in which i found myself today.. or maybe i'm a brand whore... might just be spinning my wheels and kidding myself.

[Bo_Lorentzen]

Edward,

 

Somebody posted not too long ago, that it is likely using the camera which make you feel special, also influences your creativity. Regardless what camera that may be. if a Leica red dot makes you happy, then so be it.

 

You said earlier that you are just getting into photography... Dealing with dynamic and changing situations like life in general takes experience, there are really only one way to master those, that is years of experience... so regardless of camera, you need to get out there and start putting a lot of film through one or another camera.

 

You are not fooling yourself, but you are at a point where "you don't know what you don't know yet." that is the point of knowing enough to be dangerous... but...

 

So, D-lux or S2, keep it comming, post pictures, good or bad and KEEP doing so the next few years.

 

.

[jsrockit]

well i haven't even seen a body that inexpensive used frankly. I'm not sure where you're looking - maybe it's euros

 

I bought my M8 for $2226. I figure you can get the lens for around $900-1000, so he wasn't that far off... but still... $3200 vs. $2000 is a far stretch for some...including me.

[jsrockit]

Somebody posted not too long ago, that it is likely using the camera which make you feel special, also influences your creativity. Regardless what camera that may be. if a Leica red dot makes you happy, then so be it.

 

I agree with this. Most cameras end up staying at home or end up being sold, but I always want to use my Leica M.

[h00ligan]

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Thanks for the input all!

[jsrockit]

Thanks for the input all!

 

What did you decide?

[Hektor6644]

Hi:

 

I'm also sitting on the X-1, but will have to handle it, before making up my mind. The following are sample photos taken with the X-1 - it has the Leica colors and the main reason for wanting it:

 

Leica X1 Preview Samples Gallery Gallery: Digital Photography Review

 

I presently have the following:

 

Leica D-Lux 4:

 

 

D5000 Lenses:

 

Nikkor AF-S 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6 G-VR II DX

 

Nikkor AF 10.5mm f/2.8G ED-IF DX - Fisheye

Nikkor AF-S 35mm f/1.8G DX

Voigtländer Nokton 58mm f/1.4 SL-II

 

Nikkor AF-S 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED VR DX

 

D700 Lenses:

 

Nikkor AF-S 14-24mm f/2.8G ED N

Nikkor AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8G ED N

 

Zeiss ZF Distagon 25mm f/2.8 T*

Zeiss ZF Distagon 35mm f/2 T*

Zeiss ZF Planar 50mm f/1.4 T*

 

Nikkor AF-S 70-200mm f/2.8G ED-IF VR-I with Kirk LP-45 QR Foot

 

Macro Lenses - D5000 & D700:

 

Nikkor AF Micro 105mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S VR II - Handheld/Monopod

Sigma APO 150mm f/2.8 EX Macro EX DG HSM with Kirk LP-1 QR Foot - Tripod

Canon 77mm 500D Close-Up Lens.

 

The X-1 will replace the D-Lux 4 but not the D5K, which has the same sensor as the X-1. All my lenses for the D5K, with the exception of the 16-85 VR, are less than 1 LB, which is the constraint. I basically traded the D300, which was never used after getting the D700, for a much lighter camera with much lighter lenses. To my big surprise, the D5K is cleaner, at High ISO, than the D300. No matter how good the X-1 is, it will never be the D5K as a camera.

 

I will finance the X-1 by selling the D-Lux 4 and the Nikon 24-70. Before making the decision, I'm also waiting for the rumored new Nikon lenses: AF-S 24mm f/1.8 DX, the AF-S 85mm f/1.4 VR, or the AF-S 135mm f/2 DC VR. Either one of the latter two, would replace the Nikon 105 VR.

 

There has been a lot of negative talk about the X-1, shutter lag, AF issues and the price. This is a breakthrough camera (with minor pre-production issues - give it time) that comes with the Leica colors at 1/2 the price of the fabled Elmarit 24mm. These are the Leica prices. The one I want is the M9, actually, with just three lenses: Luxes 24mm and 50mm and the Cron 35mm. However, I do not have the 20K that I need. Just because, I do not have the money, I will never knock a fantastic camera. The only Leica I'm able to afford is the X-1 and that is why I'm keeping an eye on it.

 

Best regards,

 

Hektor

[h00ligan]

What did you decide?

 

I'm less obsessed now TBH after reading Steve Huffman's review.

 

Here's more food for thought - I love the DL4 but as I don't have the funds for multiple setups at present.. well at least can't justify for just starting in a beginning hobby I have decided to return the DL4.

 

The Main reason is that I want a bigger sensor and more DOF than any 'compact' can offer. I shoot a lot of candid stuff right now, it's what I am drawn to, whether it's my gf and her family, or out an about. Depth of field of fast lenses on a full size sensor add a lot to that type of photog - at least from my beginner experiences.

 

So what it looks like I need to decide is if I have to fore go my enthusiasm for Leica for a DSLR for the time being while keeping my eye on it in the future, or get the great leica colors in a fixed range camera, the X1.

 

I think I need to really reflect on what I am doing / want to shoot... because the three thoughts now are...

 

Leica X1 $2000

Rebel t1i with 18-55 / F3.5-5.6 IS, 55-250 / F4-5.6 $800 leaving $1200 to buy primes or an L lens

Panasonic GF-1 with 20mm $900 leaving $1100 for the other two lenses

Keep using Rebel XT and put $2k into lenses.

 

Obviously bang for the buck $2k into a canon system is going to go much farther. I do feel the current XT is a bit limited compared to the t1i... and on the other hand I enjoy shooting with a 50mm 1.8 right now - but it can be limiting (may run into a wall indoors trying to frame correctly). So now I'm REALLY confused..

 

Here's sorta the list I've been making in my head - please correct me if I am wrong on any of these points

 

X1 - Pros

Much less likely to be bothered by people than using a dslr. Whether at a concert or photographing architecture/people in the street. Much less invasive on the street than a dslr.

For a beginning photographer, it really seems to me the manual controls of the x1 are a great thing - kinda like starting with film.

DSLR size sensor.

Leica Lens.

Great High Iso performance - up with dslr.

Simplicity of a fixed lens system help me to develop more as a photographer?

Lightest of the three.

Leica Support - I had a good experience when I called.

Warm and fuzzy feeling of owning a beautifully styled camera with a happy red dot (yes I do actually consider that a pro - although on a weighted scale this and the next few points carry less weight - except the last!)

Despite it being a Leica - it won't carry the same expectation from subjects I know compared to pull out a massive DSLR setup - less pressure for a newcomer.

I get to keep hanging out in this forum - which has been the most helpful and supportive I've found! I don't want to leave my new friends

 

X1 - Cons

Simplicity of a fixed lens system piss me off when I can't physically move to get a better shot?

Slow autofocus not good for street photog (per Steve Huffman's review)

Have to buy a viewfinder and it's not going to be 1:1 regarding framing.

Price

 

GF-1 - Pros

Lower weight than DSLR

Interchangeable lenses

Pancake lens - images I have seen look very very nice (and i do think this combo directly competes with the x1)

Price

 

GF-1 - Cons

Small lens selection (native MFT with IS)

Smaller than DSLR Sensor

No IS on pancake lens (I have a very slight tremor)

Possibly awkward ergonomics (if it's anything like the ep-2 No way I can use it)

14-45 and telephoto lenses not terribly fast.

Hear absolutely HORRIBLE things about panasonic camera support (their tv support has been good for me though)?

 

Rebel T1i - Pros

Lowest price of entry /largest featureset

DSLR sensor

FAST autofocus

Massive amount of lenses available, endlessly customizable to suit a specific purpose / Expandable as I learn my needs better

Probably the best low light performance of the bunch

Probably the most technologically advanced of the three. Auto mode probably produces better results for times I am just recording some snaps

Proper viewfinder - no guessing, marking lines, etc... and no added expense for one.

 

Rebel T1i - Cons

Probably the most technologically advanced of the three - a lot of which I won't use (like creative modes and video)

Largest and heaviest of the bunch

Imposing to subjects - they are much more aware of the camera / Draw more attn by authorities when street shooting

Much more 'fiddly' / steeper learning curve (my dlux 4 has been a dream to learn - very easy to use and grow comfortable with)

I haven't felt very 'connected' to my rebel xt - design, ergonomics, menus etc.. may improve with the t1i - won't know till I try it.

 

Looking at this list, it should seem pretty clear to me that I need to remove the GF1 from my consideration, yet people are SWEARING that they are fantastic - and Jim Radcliffe's gf-1 shots (as with his dl4 shots) are fantastic.. over the dl4 they are more crisp and offer better DOF

 

I may have missed some pros and cons on this list... in fact I'm sure I did. Not so glad you asked what I decided now are ya! as always any and all thoughts on this are absolutely welcome and encouraged.

[jsrockit]

Looking at this list, it should seem pretty clear to me that I need to remove the GF1 from my consideration, yet people are SWEARING that they are fantastic - and Jim Radcliffe's gf-1 shots (as with his dl4 shots) are fantastic.. over the dl4 they are more crisp and offer better DOF.

 

It's funny that you say this because it seems like it would be the best compromise for you. Your DL4 should have more depth of field since it has a smaller sensor. The GF-1 will have less DOF (which can be a good thing).

[h00ligan]

I'm sorry, you're right - I mean typed that backwards! when you're new you tend to go the wrong way on what you mean regarding aperture and dof /dumbass me.

[Bo_Lorentzen]

Edward, the GF1 is good fun.

 

Don't let Jim mislead you though, he can make ANY old scrappy dog look like a postcard, regardless what you give him to shoot with.

 

Still a micro 43 is a interesting middle road between a large sensor and a D-lux4

[h00ligan]

Well another major strike against the GF1 is that there is literally not one store in Phoenix that carries them - the last thing I want to do is go on a buy and return spree with Amazon :/

 

The olympus had bad ergonomics for my hand size but the panny looked to have improved those a bit...too bad it looks like i'll not be able to find out. Although the X1 is in the same boat - no dummy's at the one of two photo stores here.. hmm.

 

Agreed on Jim's photography - certainly a level to which one must aspire!

 

Second and third strike on panasonic - calling them to find out where to go to find one - automated system, not people, annoying delay getting through. I gave presales my zip code - here in Phoenix, and she said "I only show one dealer carrying those in stock" to which I thought, alright - I'm going to have to drive to Tempe or similar. Then she added - "this one's gunna be in Illinois, let me get you that number" I asked her if she realized I was in Arizona and she said "yes sir". Do a little math lady, I asked for a local dealer, and I think most people are aware of Amazon and B&H.

 

The fact this cam is NOT being carried by the two major stores here gives me great pause, not just due to possibly having to return a second cam to Amazon, but also - because products whose launches that don't get carried in real life stores don't tend to live long. So - maybe it is getting pushed out of the picture.

[jsrockit]

Hooligan, I think you have the wrong impression on the GF-1. Understand that the GF-1 is a very hot camera at the moment and is just not in stock anywhere except a few places. It is the micro 4/3 camera to have right now. The X1 will not be easy to find in stock for months after it ships either.

[h00ligan]

She said the only dealers set to carry - her words - maybe she misspoke. I can tell you the two biggest camera stores in Phoenix don't carry Panasonic at all(photomark and tempe camera) Ritz camera will probably get it at some point, but they have no idea when and confirmed the wrong camera to me when i called in. Fry's electronics carry the g1 or g11 but have no stock on order for the gf-1

 

just food for thought. I picked up the xt1 kit tonight as costco very close to me had it.. maybe i will love it - maybe not.. only one way to tell. I HATE having to return things though! As a separate experiment I will also be shooting at 35mm for a bit and see where that leaves me.. but to ensure the comparison is fair could someone clarify for me.... (I think I'm right on this but just want to make sure)

 

Due to the 1.6 crop of both the cameras, I assume that's basically at where the 24 mark is on the canon lens - is this correct thinking? This will also help me feel out whether the x1 fixed range will work for me.

 

I will also say, the t1i autofocus is RIDICULOUSLY fast. I could really care less about 12 vs 15 MP - in fact, i'd bet the 12 mp probably looks better on a sensor of the same size. At the end of the day I'm just trying to find the right tool for my needs - I realize a canon kit lens is not going to come even close to a leica but the new kit lens is noticeably better than the old - plus i have my 50 prime too..