M9 Problem with Tropical Light and Other Issues

[Guest malland]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Before dealing with the issues at hand, I should state that my M9 also had a cracked sensor cover glass like the problems reported in this thread.

 

But Leica replaced the sensor within four business days after receiving the camera, which is great, although with customs processing in Thailand and Germany the process took a fortnight. My problem was in mid-October, but what is disconcerting is that someone else had the same cracked sensor problem on a camera he received on 24th December .

 

Basically, I like the M9 a lot better than the M8, for all the obvious reasons. While I assume that most of the obvious problems — slow formatting, slow writing of uncompressed files — will be fixed in the forthcoming firmware upgrade, I have two major problems related to exposure metering.

 

Firstly, the LEDs for the exposure meter are often not bright enough to be visible in the viewfinder when shooting in the extremely bright sunlight here in Thailand. This is an important issue for me because, the light here is indeed very bright every day that is not overcast, from after 8am until about 4:30pm. Even in the rainy season, from June-October, the sky is overcast only less than 50% during these hours. Therefore, this an important problem for me; and I was considering selling the camera, which would be easy in Bangkok right now, until the obvious solution occurred to me: covering with my left hand the viewfinder windows on the front of the camera whenever the LEDs are not visible in bright light. But this is an awkward solution and I've written to Leica, who are looking into the this problem.

 

This problem is compounded by the fact that in this bright light I cannot see a test exposure well enough because of the low quality of the 230,000 pixel LCD. In contrast to this, on my Ricog GR-Digital III camera, which has a 930,000 pixel LCD, I can see an image well enough even in this bright light to test the exposure.

 

(The irony is that I was inspired to buy the M9 when I saw in the Leica-M brochure how the photographs of Maik Scharfscheer depicted the bright light of Cuba; but now, in using the camera.)

 

I compared the brightness of the LEDs of the M9 to those of my M6, which are much brighter and which remain visible even in the brightest light here. I also tested to see whether the Brightness Sensor (item 1.4 in the manual) was working by shining a halogen lamp onto a white wall and covering and uncovering the Brightness Sensor — it works. Incidentally, using this projection of halogen light onto a white wall as a simulation of the bright sunlight in Thailand, I found that the LEDs cease being visible when the exposure is at f/4 and 1/2000sec at ISO 160.

 

Secondly, the exposure meter works somewhat differently from those of the M8 and the M6, because of the difference in the metering pattern. Generally, I find that I sometimes get the exposure wrong with 35mm and 50mm lenses, much more often than I ever did with the M6; and get it wrong much more often with wide-angle lenses, the 28mm and 21mm lenses.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Barrier Series

[pgk]

Silly suggestion number one. Why not by some Neutral Density polyester film (I think that Lee filters sell this) and fix it over the viewfinder and rangefinder windows in very bright conditions - a cheap solution which might well potentially work .

[Guest malland]

Thanks, Paul, but that doesn't sound practical for me because, for street photography for example, you might have very bright conditions quickly alternating with deep shade. Darkening the windows will make focusing difficult in darker conditions; not to speak of having using Rube Goldberg solutions on a US$7,000 camera — of course the same goes for having to cover the RF windows with your left hand.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Barrier

[chris_tribble]

Hmmm - if the LED's are dim in the VF there may be a fault. Although it's not the same as tropical light I've been using the M9 in bright sunlit snow scenes and had no problem seeing the LEDs - I've also had no problem with exposure.

[hoppyman]

I shot mine at the beach here is bright sub-tropical cloudless conditions. Typically 1,000-f/8-11@ ISO 160.

Zero problems with finder display visibility at any time in my use so far. I never expect to view any LCD in direct sunlight and haven't looked, but turning into shade works fine for me (I've only used the standard brightness setting for the LCD).

I've been impressed with the metering performance on 50, 24 and 75 in interiors to sunrises to bright sun so far.

24 Elmar full frame

[Jager]

like Chris and Geoff, my M9 does not appear to exhibit those faults you describe, Mitch. I've had no problem viewing the viewfinder readout in very bright light, nor have I experienced any exposure issues. I think I'd have my camera checked just to make sure everything is kosher.

 

It often can be a problem verifying the rear LCD in very bright light. But the histogram is always sufficiently visible to give insight into exposure. You might try that.

 

Good luck in getting it sorted...

[dpattinson]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Mitch, at 160iso is there not enough latitude to just manually set the exposure in bright sunlight? Sunny 16 or whatever works on the M9. I often do that in bright conditions and then just flip the shutterspeed dial back to A when I walk into the shade.

[Guest malland]

Dave, not really: the light here is so bright — we're talking about light that makes your eyes feel uncomfortable without strong sunglasses — that it's very difficult to see degrees of brightness, which, of course exist.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Barrier

[Nicoleica]

Perhaps a market opportunity exists for someone who can manufacture flip-up sunglasses on an accessory shoe mounting to fit an M camera?

[neli]

 

Secondly, the exposure meter works somewhat differently from those of the M8 and the M6, because of the difference in the metering pattern. Generally, I find that I sometimes get the exposure wrong with 35mm and 50mm lenses, much more often than I ever did with the M6; and get it wrong much more often with wide-angle lenses, the 28mm and 21mm lenses.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Barrier Series

 

out of curiosity, is the meter under or overexposing. i've seen underexposure using the A setting in strong back light (swiss alps) and the foreground and center of the picture are quite often much too dark.

 

hope you work out the camera without sending it back to germany from thailand. it's frustrating enough being outside the EU in the middle of the continent. custom waits are intolerable. much like airport security checks (grumble). still, mustn't grumble :-)

 

best

 

cornelius

[dpattinson]

Probably not the same kind of exposure problem, but I recall my M8 grossly underexposing sometimes when shooting with the sun in front of me and directly above the lens axis (in Australia - also very bright light). It seemed like light that wasn't actually forming part of the image, was somehow hitting the metering cell which is in the M8 at least, centrally behind the lens.

 

I used the M7 last time I was in Bangkok as my M8 was in for repair, it was damn bright then too - even for film.

[Guest malland]

out of curiosity, is the meter under or overexposing. i've seen underexposure using the A setting in strong back light (swiss alps) and the foreground and center of the picture are quite often much too dark.

 

hope you work out the camera without sending it back to germany from thailand. it's frustrating enough being outside the EU in the middle of the continent. custom waits are intolerable. much like airport security checks (grumble). still, mustn't grumble :-)...

Cornelius:

 

Generally overexposing: I think it's caused by the difference in the metering pattern, as I had no trouble with the M6 or even the M8, not a problem with the light meter.

 

I'm waiting for the response from Leica on the LEDs, but I'm have to send the camera back to Leica anyway because my Summilux-50 (pre-ASPH) does not always bring up the correct frame lines, and when it does, they're a bit and there are spurious parts of other frame lines showing. Leica have said that there is some "mis-match" with my particular lens and my M9 that they will have to adjust, although there is no focus issue. None of my other lenses has this problem; and when I tried a friend's version of the same lens there was no problem either.

 

I'll send the camera back to Solms when I'm in Paris at the end of January or early February: Leica have told me that they'll the turnaround in just a few days.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Barrier

[gravastar]

..............................Firstly, the LEDs for the exposure meter are often not bright enough to be visible in the viewfinder when shooting in the extremely bright sunlight here in Thailand.

.................... Therefore, this an important problem for me; and I was considering selling the camera, which would be easy in Bangkok right now, until the obvious solution occurred to me: covering with my left hand the viewfinder windows on the front of the camera whenever the LEDs are not visible in bright light. ...............................

Just an idea. Could some of the problem with the LED exposure meter visibility be due to bright light getting between the rear eyepiece and your eye. That would cause the iris of the eye to stop down decreasing the apparent brightness of the LEDs. When you cover the viewfinder window with your left hand you may also be shading your eye causing it's iris to open up and the LEDs to become more visible. Maybe one of Tim Isaac's eye cups would help?

 

Bob.

[Guest malland]

...I used the M7 last time I was in Bangkok as my M8 was in for repair, it was damn bright then too - even for film.

David, this is the point: I'm dealing with very bright light and, while not questioning what Chris, Jeff and Geoff state above, I wonder whether they are referring to light which is as bright as what that gives me the LED problem.

 

As you note, it's difficult to shoot with film in this light as well, but the M9 handles it well if the exposure in correct. For people in Northern Europe it's hard to get a sense of this type of light, but in the following B&W picture one couldn't look at the water without squinting one's eyes. The colour picture shows that type of light on the wall. This type of light often gives unpredictable results with film, while with digital you obviously have the advantage of being able to test the exposure.

 

 

 

Paknampran | Leica M9 | Summilux-50 | ISO 160

 

 

 

 

Bangkok | Leica M9 | Summilux-50 | ISO 160

 

 

 

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Barrier

[Guest malland]

Just an idea. Could some of the problem with the LED exposure meter visibility be due to bright light getting between the rear eyepiece and your eye. That would cause the iris of the eye to stop down decreasing the apparent brightness of the LEDs. When you cover the viewfinder window with your left hand you may also be shading your eye causing it's iris to open up and the LEDs to become more visible. Maybe one of Tim Isaac's eye cups would help?....

Bob, no it's definitely an obvious problem with the LEDs in the M9 not being bright enough because, as stated above, I compared the LEDs in my M6, which are brighter by something like a factor of ten times and never become invisible in the brightest light that I face.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Barrier

[jaapv]

That cannot be right. I see no difference in brightness between an M6 and a M9. Nor do my M9 Leds disappear in tropical light. The LCD yes, but that is nothing new. As for the exposure, I agree with your observation., there is certainly a difference btween the M8 and the M9. In practice it appears to cater for those who used to dial in 2/3rds on the M8 as standard setting. I rather like it, as the metering field gives me the opportunity to use it as a semi-spot meter on manual..

[Guest malland]

Jaap, well, I hope it's a problem with my particular M9 because I would hate for it to be a design fault. But the difference with my M6 LEDs is huge.

 

What do you mean by catering "for those who used to dial in 2/3rds on the M8 as standard setting"?

 

BTW, I don't know where is the tropical light that you've shot in, but in Thailand the light can be substantially brighter than I've seen in Southern Africa or in the Caribbean.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Barrier

[nryn]

For what it's worth, I'm also finding I have to adjust to the M9's metering pattern as well. In shooting as I did with my M8, most of my shots are darker than I would expect. I never had any exposure compensation with the M8; I may resort to that on the M9. This isn't a complaint--all part of getting to know a new machine. But it's an important difference between the two cameras. It also doesn't bode well for me keeping the M8, as I see a growing list of things I'm realizing I'll have to mentally switch between (filters, focal lengths, metering, etc.) if I bring two bodies anywhere. Oh well. Room for an M10 in a few years, then.

 

I generally don't look at the LCD, but the M9 is making me look at a histogram. I don't really find the lower-res LCD an issue (though it's amazing to me how many people find it a great value on their newer cameras), as the histogram is fairly easy to read and really the only way in which evaluating exposure matters to me (I assume, perhaps presumptuously, that the composition is OK).

[Guest malland]

Today, I had to go to Schmidt Marketing, the Leica importer for Thailand, to drop off my M9 for shipment back to Leica for exchange for a new one: this concerns a problem that I wrote about in another thread. I took the opportunity to look at their demo M9 and it seemed to me that the LEDs were no brighter than those in my M9 — I couldn't make a direct comparison because my M9 had already been packed for shipment. Indeed, when I pointed the camera at light that seemed as bright as I've written about above, the LEDs also could not be seen.

 

If I am right that the LEDs on this demo M9 were as dim as mine, then this is a general design problem and Leica needs to turn up the brightness of the LEDs to render them visible in places that have light as bright as Thailand does when the sky is not overcast.

 

It seems to me that the people who have written above that the LEDs in their M9s are visible in very bright light are simply not shooting in light as bright as I have experienced here. On the other hand, Jaap has stated that the LEDs in his M9 are as bright as on his M9, while I find that the LEDs in mine are something like "ten times" as bright as those in my M9, and are still visible in the brightest light found here. Possibly, Jaap's and my M6s have different viewfinders: my M6 dates from 1989 and had a viewfinder in which the focus patch flared out in very bright light — I had it exchanged for an 0.85x viewfinder of a newer type that does not have this flare-out and that has bright LEDs that remain visible in bright light.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Barrier

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

I'm talking about an M6TTL with the flary type of viewfinder - which gives me the idea that the Leicagoodies solution for that problem - a polarizing filter in front of the viewfinder window- might solve your problem too. I fear that the solution of another LED array will not be forthcoming by Leica, as there do not seem to be many complaints of this kind.