Leica Newb - am I on the right lines?

[al-fresco]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I'm retired, mid-fifties, limited income, currently using Nikon DSLRs and a Lumix LX3. My photography is mainly rural landscape with a bit of street and informal portraiture. I much prefer using available light. At the moment I take a lot of photographs and most of them aren't very good. A slower, more considered approach might be the way forward.

 

All being well I'm getting an M6 (pre TTL) in mid January. It's quite old and well used but it looks in better shape than me and has a 12 month guarantee. Now, I need a lens to start out with - from reading this forum it looks like a used 50mm Summicron would be a good compromise and I should be able to get one without breaking the bank?

 

I'm looking to use HP5 or Tri X and get the negatives scanned so that I can import them into Lightroom 2 for web use and occasional printing.

 

Does this sound like a reasonable way to start out? Any comments or suggestions welcomed.

[antistatic]

Sounds a fine way to start. What version of the Summicron are you looking at?

 

The problem with Leica is stopping at one

[al-fresco]

Sounds a fine way to start. What version of the Summicron are you looking at?

 

Ahh, there's more than one? More than one with an M Mount? Any suggestions? (Budget is about £500.)

[antistatic]

Check this out. The 50mm Summicrons appear about 2/3rds of the way down the page.

 

Leica M Lens Users Guide

 

I have an M mount Collapsable Summicron which works fine for a 50 year old lens. I'm sure £500 would get you a early Summicron in good condition.

[al-fresco]

Check this out. The 50mm Summicrons appear about 2/3rds of the way down the page.

 

Leica M Lens Users Guide

 

I have an M mount Collapsable Summicron which works fine for a 50 year old lens. I'm sure £500 would get you a early Summicron in good condition.

 

That's an incredibly useful link - and just the sort of thing I was looking for. This is not going to be as simple as I thought!

 

Thanks for the pointer.

[andybarton]

Allan

 

Welcome to the forum from me too

 

If you want a 50 Summicron (and who wouldn't?) there are hundreds to choose from.

 

Mine is from 1973-ish, works perfectly and is a beautiful lens, even if it is one of the fourth version ones that seem to be sniffed at. It came on the front of my first M, an M2.

 

You don't need to buy a very new one, as the basic lens design was sorted about 40 years ago, and the old ones work just as well as the newer ones.

 

£500 will find you an excellent example of an older lens.

[marcg]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Based on the photographic interests which you say you have - rural landscape etc, you may find that a mildy wide-angle - say, 35mm might be more suited to what you want.

 

There's a large selection of those too. See the Cameraquest link that you have already been given.

 

Aperturre Photographics APERTURE PHOTOGRAPHIC SPECIALISTS IN PROFESSIONAL CAMERA EQUIPMENT. Nikon, Canon, Leica and other Professional equipment seem to be a good source of secondhand gear and I have noticed that their prices seem generally a smidgeon less than what you might normally expect to pay to a secondhand dealer. Of course eBay may produce better deals - but probably not by much, given the size of the market all competing for the same kit.

 

Please excuse me saying that if you think that your present pictures aren't very good, then why is it that you think that a Leica is going to improve them? What is that prevents a slow and considered approach with the cameras which you already have?

[al-fresco]

Thanks to Andy for the advice and to Mark for the excellent link and suggestion.

 

Mark, my eyesight is not what it was and I find that manual focusing on a DSLR is very hit and miss, especially now that I use varifocal spectacles. I think, from brief experience, that Leica's focusing system will help. As regard exposure I tend to use aperture priority, dial in exposure compensation and look at the histogram or for blown highlights after each shot. It's a hard habit to break! And since extra photos are effectively "free" on a digital camera there's a temptation to blast away and hope. I am think that using less automation and film - so that each failed effort has a cost, may help me to acquire some better habits.

 

Oh - I also hate sensor dust with a passion!

[jpattison]

Allan,

Might I suggest Ilford Delta (100 or 400) as a better black & White film for scanning. Dev'd in ID11.

I've tried quite a few different films and found these the best.

 

Try Ffordes in Scotland or Stephens in Manchester for good second hand lenses with a guarantee.

 

You may also want a viewfinder correction lens, as using spectacles to view a 35mm lens frame is tricky.

Have fun!

John

[Guest AgXlove]

An M6 and a 50 'cron is a fine way to start out. Add a 35 'cron when you can and you'll have a great kit that will cover alot of photographic ground.

[cocker]

Welcome Allan. M6 and 50m Summicron was my first Leica combination but I would echo what has been said about the 35mm Summicron if you do a lot of landscape work.

[roguewave]

Allan, welcome aboard. I'd like to make a suggestion, as I'm a little older than you and am struggling with some of the same issues. I just had a complete eye exam from an Ophthalmologist (MD) in NYC that said my eyes are perfect! Just let her look through the viewfinder!

 

Here's my idea. The M3 has the largest & brightest viewfinder and is the ideal Leica for use with a 50mm lens. The M3 is the all time greatest film camera. There's just nothing like it. Once it's in your hands, you will never stop using it. Given your budget, the M3 is cheaper than the M6 and is a better tool for use with the 50 Summicron. Regarding the Summicron 50, as Andy noted there are so many out there & they all are divine. Starting with the very inexpensive chrome collapsible. Mine is the Summicron 5cm f2 s/n 1190307. I bought this on Ebay along with my second M3. The lens cost me $150. While not as tack sharp as the $350-600 more updated, not to mention the most recent models at a cost of almost $2,000, the 5C is a great starter lens & it's images are timeless. I use it all the time when I do portraits of folks our age. The gentle renderings take away some of the harsh contrast and unwanted sharpness that isn't always handsome in a photograph. That said, it's always a lot easier to gently sharpen an image in Photoshop than to achieve a real world likeness that this lens renders with ease.

 

Finally, Tri X is simply supreme with this lens & the M3. Very forgiving with the grain that every M9 lusts for. Most important: you will want other lenses in the future. Take some time to really get to know your camera and the lens you first buy. Once you can make images without thinking, than you should feel free to lust elsewhere. The Forum has very many film film shooters. Check out their work & see what the Leica M film production is like. I'll look for your first frames. Congrats on taking the plunge & Happy Holidays.

[tobey bilek]

Stop where you are.

 

Digital is where it is at. Digi files look better than scanned film any day, Leica or not.

 

I have lots of Leica stuff, enough to start a large store and it sure was nice with film.

 

The Nikon digi D700 is better than Leica scanned film and you need a first class dedicated scanner to come close or match and it is a ton of extra work for little benefit, if any.

 

current Kodak Portra and Fuji 160S are the best scanning films out there if you decide to continue.

 

Get a copy of Real World Sharpening by Fraser and Schewe so you can learn how to get the best out of film. Noise reduction and sharpening are polar opposites so a fair amount of technique is required. You will need to be pretty literate with photoshop to even read the book. PS Elements does not cut it so don`t even think about it.

 

It will take you years to learn enough to just match what a good DSLR can do out of the box. It is a long steep learning curve. Color darkroom is easy in comparison. Did that for 20 years. I recommend a Nikon D700 for value/price. Old AiS lenses are cheap and work fine. You will be better off. Later Nikon digis are marvelous.

 

All this from a guy who loves Leica and can`t bring himself to sell his treasures.

 

Any Leica, Leitz, or Zeiss M mount lenses are fine. That gets you from 1955 to current.

Spend as much as you want. Cost benefit advantage is small for new glass. Some don`t even like it at all. That is another subject.

[roguewave]

Stop where you are.

 

Digital is where it is at. Digi files look better than scanned film any day, Leica or not.

 

I have lots of Leica stuff, enough to start a large store and it sure was nice with film.

 

The Nikon digi D700 is better than Leica scanned film and you need a first class dedicated scanner to come close or match and it is a ton of extra work for little benefit, if any.

 

current Kodak Portra and Fuji 160S are the best scanning films out there if you decide to continue.

 

Get a copy of Real World Sharpening by Fraser and Schewe so you can learn how to get the best out of film. Noise reduction and sharpening are polar opposites so a fair amount of technique is required. You will need to be pretty literate with photoshop to even read the book. PS Elements does not cut it so don`t even think about it.

 

It will take you years to learn enough to just match what a good DSLR can do out of the box. It is a long steep learning curve. Color darkroom is easy in comparison. Did that for 20 years. I recommend a Nikon D700 for value/price. Old AiS lenses are cheap and work fine. You will be better off. Later Nikon digis are marvelous.

 

All this from a guy who loves Leica and can`t bring himself to sell his treasures.

 

Any Leica, Leitz, or Zeiss M mount lenses are fine. That gets you from 1955 to current.

Spend as much as you want. Cost benefit advantage is small for new glass. Some don`t even like it at all. That is another subject.

 

With all that, he can't get his DSLR to look like film. I still believe most people prefer the look of film to digital. I just spent 2 hours looking at Bruce Davidson's work in a gallery. Not possible to produce that imagery with a DSLR. Just, no way. Period.

[jorgen83]

Stop where you are.

 

Digital is where it is at. Digi files look better than scanned film any day, Leica or not.

 

I really hope you're kidding, because if not, you're so wrong.

[al-fresco]

Thanks to everybody for their help and suggestions.

 

Ben - thanks for the tip about the M3 - if my current purchase of an M6 falls through I'll definitely look into that. As regards my eyesight - it's not that bad but I do seem to find it difficult to judge "sharpness" without some kind of focusing aid.

 

Tobey - a D700 would be a natural progression from my D50 and D200 but I'm looking to change direction. I'm hoping that an M6 + summicron will hold their value so that, if it turns out that I really have made a mistake then I shouldn't lose to much if I have to sell them. Thanks for the book recommendation - I'll look into that.

 

John - cheers Stevens in Manchester isn't too far from here!

 

Great forum guys!

[cheewai_m6]

i have an m6, 50mm cron and a 35mm cron. i do a lot of city scape, landscapes, architectural. i find the 35mm not to be that useful. it's not quite wide enough, and not quite long enough.sort caught in the middle. i'm getting a 28mm elmarit/cron very soon. i will be trading the 35 for it. the 50mm is such a good focal length for m i find. but for me, 35mm isn't wide enough.

[NZDavid]

M6 and 50 Summicron combo is ideal. Rangefinder focusing is extremely accurate, even in low light; it just needs practice. The 50 'cron is a superb lens -- great for portraits and surprisingly versatile as a landscape lens. You may want to add a 35 or wider lens later, which is trickier but not impossible with the M3 (you need either a special version 35 or a separate viewfinder). The big advantage, of course, of the M6 is its built-in meter.

 

One big advantage you will notice immediately over the DSLR is how simple the Leica is to use: no fiddly menus and program functions. You just set the shutter speed, aperture and focus -- that's it. The simplicity of operation lets you concentrate on composing the picture.

 

Why not experiment with slide film as well as B+W, just for fun? Scanning gives you the advantages of physical film to hang on to and a digital file -- but shop around for the best price and quality scanning (it varies). Or you could buy your own scanner if you have time. DIY B+W developing and scanning could work out.

 

I'd also recommend buying some books to get the max out of the M system. Two recommendations are Leica M Advanced Photo School by Günter Osterloh, and any book on Leica M by Brian Bower.

[al-fresco]

Thanks once more for all the replies. As always fate took a hand and I've ended up with an M3. I couldn't help - it was made in 1954 (as was I) and it handles so beautifully. Clear viewfinder, quiet, crisp action - I fell in love with it. And the money I saved on the M6 was more than enough to buy a decent Kenko light meter. I bought a 50mm Color Skopar which I reckon I should be able to trade in for a Summicron at a later date.

 

A Leica starter kit for less than £850 - time to go and play!

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Guest maddoc2003jp]

Congrats on your new camera ! You will love your M3 and a camera without a meter really makes you think about exposure. Just one comment, if you are into landscape don`t forget the 28mm focal length ! 28mm + 50mm makes an ideal combination. You will need an external VF for the 28mm but that is less a problem than trying to see 28mm frame lines using a 0.72x Leica VF.