X1 or GXR?

[markpsf]

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I expect some biases here, know there are boosters for the X1 and some committed to criticizing it (mild affectionate sarcasm intended!). So I don't expect full objectivity.

I want another first rate reasonably small camera that will be great for closeup street shooting, has first-rate easy manual control for zone focusing and quick shooting, and a first rate sensor.

 

I love the focal length of the X1 (35mm is my personal favorite for street shooting) and some of the retro controls. Additionally, to my non pro eyes the images look good. My hesitancy relates to reports (Sean's review in particular) of problems with manual focus controls. If those problems are addressed and solved my decision might be easy. But it appears to be a big "IF".

 

The GXR has the advantage of an apparently good electronic viewfinder and some reports that indicate good manual focus controls. The A12 apparently also has produced excellent images.

 

So I'm undecided.

 

Your thoughts appreciated.

 

Mark

[c6gowin]

The GXR with the APS-C sensor and 50mm lens appears to be too large to suit me. The X1 is as big I as would want for a take-anywhere camera.

 

Mark Gowin

[jsrockit]

The GXR with the APS-C sensor and 50mm lens appears to be too large to suit me. The X1 is as big I as would want for a take-anywhere camera.

 

Mark Gowin

 

I second this...

[Guest stnami]

Place your dilemma in a canon or nikon forum and you may get a better perspective....... no use placing them in leica and ricoh forums, you already know the bias.

[taildraggin]

All my friends had Instamatics and I had a Ricoh 126C Automatic. It was cool. Same 126 film cartridge, but it actually had the max aperture on the lens (with focal length!) and had motor wind - well, a spring you wound up on the bottom. Flash cubes rotated on top and you had to focus it with the rangefinder.

 

I think the new Ricohs are in the same position as my first - leading the pack!

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[grober]

EVERY digital camera I have ever handled with an electronic viewfinder has ALWAYS disappointed me. There is always just a slight hesitation between realtime and the electric image displayed in the v/f.

 

Make mine an X1 please with its large, accessory -- for me, mandatory! -- 36mm, optical viewfinder. The screen on the back of any digital camera is only useful to me for verifying the image already captured, not for framing.

 

(However, I acknowledge when I use the X1 with studio flash, I can only trigger said flash with a radio trigger in the camera's single accessory shoe. In these very few cases, I'll have no option but to use the bloody screen for framing the shot.)

 

-g

[markpsf]

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I'm fine with the biases. There is also "investment" and often a reasoned biased response.

 

Besides, everyone's biased, even Nikon and Canon users.

And they generally, if not always, know less about and have less interest in these cameras.

 

Mark

 

 

Place your dilemma in a canon or nikon forum and you may get a better perspective....... no use placing them in leica and ricoh forums, you already know the bias.

[lars_bergquist]

EVERY digital camera I have ever handled with an electronic viewfinder has ALWAYS disappointed me. There is always just a slight hesitation between realtime and the electric image displayed in the v/f.

 

Make mine an X1 please with its large, accessory -- for me, mandatory! -- 36mm, optical viewfinder. The screen on the back of any digital camera is only useful to me for verifying the image already captured, not for framing.

 

(However, I acknowledge when I use the X1 with studio flash, I can only trigger said flash with a radio trigger in the camera's single accessory shoe. In these very few cases, I'll have no option but to use the bloody screen for framing the shot.)

 

-g

Get yourself a Nissin SC-01 cable. It goes into the camera's shoe, and transfers all data to the flash, but has an extra shoe on top of the camera-side connector, into which you can slide the finder.

 

I use this cable between my M9 and my SF24D, with complete satisfaction.

 

The old man from the Age of Flashpowder

[grober]

Thank you, Lars. I didn't know such a cable existed.

 

-g

[artspraken]

New review of GXR dated 14 Dec 2009

 

Ricoh GXR Review | PhotographyBLOG

[taildraggin]

I don't understand the business case for this Ricoh. Technical justification is somewhat ambiguous to me, too.

 

Business: the most expensive elements of digital cameras are the lens and sensor. You'll have to buy a sensor with each lens. How can additional lenses be sold competitively against cameras with with normal interchangeable lenses? You are largely buying a whole new camera for each focal length. Curious.

 

Technical: Closed box (dust free) is a solid (if minor?) improvement and image quality should be optimized with the lens/sensor combo, but how much improvement can you expect over the existing lens/sensor pairs? I guess we'll see.

 

- Charlie

[contaxgary]

Business: the most expensive elements of digital cameras are the lens and sensor. You'll have to buy a sensor with each lens. How can additional lenses be sold competitively against cameras with with normal interchangeable lenses? You are largely buying a whole new camera for each focal length. Curious.

 

Technical: Closed box (dust free) is a solid (if minor?) improvement and image quality should be optimized with the lens/sensor combo, but how much improvement can you expect over the existing lens/sensor pairs? I guess we'll see.

 

Sorry Charlie... if you want another lens with the X1, you literally need to buy a new camera and at Leica prices. So, in this sense the GXR makes more sense than the X1.

 

This concept really depends upon what Ricoh does next. If they come out with a full frame 35mm f2.8 or faster module with great high ISO files for $1500, I will be a happy camper.

 

I'm not so sure that this system will be a pocket camera, but rather a camera which is much smaller than a DSLR.

[Guest stnami]

I'm not so sure that this system will be a pocket camera, but rather a camera which is much smaller than a DSLR

.... but by then DSLRs will be smaller

[barjohn]

Neither camera is a pocket camera to me. The idea that you can stick a camera that is 5" long and 2" thick in your pocket makes no sense to me. If you are talking a coat pocket, then they are both pocket cameras but how many of you wear coats in the summer or on vacation? Even with cargo shorts a 2" thick object is too large to not be obtrusive and obvious. By the same token the Leica CL was not a pocket camera but rather a small form factor camera. The Canon S90 is the closest thing to a pocket camera that produces a decent raw image and about the largest size that would be required to comfortably carry the camera in your pocket (trouser or shirt).

 

I think we need a new term for these smaller than SLR but larger than pocket size cameras.

[Rick]

Neither camera is a pocket camera to me. The idea that you can stick a camera that is 5" long and 2" thick in your pocket makes no sense to me. If you are talking a coat pocket, then they are both pocket cameras but how many of you wear coats in the summer or on vacation? Even with cargo shorts a 2" thick object is too large to not be obtrusive and obvious.

 

barjohn, Being able to hide, unobtrusively, a puny sized camera like the X1 in my pants pocket would be no problem for me. I, easily have room for 3''x12" of camera in my pocket. If, you have a problem with the size of the X1, maybe, you should invest in a purse.

 

Cheers.

[NZDavid]

Obviously you need deep pockets, both literally and figuratively. Is that an X1 in your pocket or...?

[Ecaton]

Sigma's DPs are jacket pocketable and so will the X1 be. Alternatively, they can comfortably be carried in a belt pouch.

Gf1 or Oly's EP 1 with pancakes are about +100g heavier than the X1 or a DP and feel to bulky/heavy to carry comfortably in a pocket or belt pouch, at least for me. Concerning the GXR, it obviously depends on the lens module mounted. The shirt pocketable solutions are small sensor cams, my choice is the GRD III.

[jsrockit]

barjohn, Being able to hide, unobtrusively, a puny sized camera like the X1 in my pants pocket would be no problem for me. I, easily have room for 3''x12" of camera in my pocket. If, you have a problem with the size of the X1, maybe, you should invest in a purse.

 

Cheers.

 

Who the hell has 12" pockets? I'm with barjohn here. It isn't small enough to be pocketable unless it is winter. I wouldn't want this brick in my pants.

[Dan States]

I rarely take a picture from inside my pocket and for that reason have always found it funny to worry about "pocketability". I always want to be ready to shoot and my experience has found that my pocket tends to be too dark and full of lint to really provide a good image.

 

Leica has made a major mistake in announcing this camera so far in advance. It has created a cottage industry of whiners, crabs, pundits and pontificators with virtually no real photography to counter the bitching.

 

How the hell can anyone compare these two cameras when at least one of them is basically vaporware until Feb?

 

One thing is for sure: based on the amount of idiotic comments it draws this truly IS a Leica.

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[jsrockit]

I rarely take a picture from inside my pocket and for that reason have always found it funny to worry about "pocketability". I always want to be ready to shoot and my experience has found that my pocket tends to be too dark and full of lint to really provide a good image..

 

I want in my pocket when I'm not in the mood to be taking a photo. I'm not so much of a geek that I can't enjoy myself without a camera around my neck every second. When I'm out with my girlfriend, she doesn't want me just stoping every two seconds to make a photo. However, it is nice to have the camera just in case. So, that's when a pocketable camera comes in handy.