What's going on??

[herbkell]

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Did I miss something or has a kind of hush developed over the M8 "update" "filters", "30% off deal" debacle

 

On Friday there was lots of comments and activitiy on the news that had been received from Leica and much speculation as to how the recall was going to be accomplished etc. There were also some folks demanding a "swap" not a recall. I also recall Sean saying that we going to have to eat our sarcastic words or similar as Leica would make their benevolence known "next week"

 

As far as I know we have not heard anymore and tomorrow brings the end of the week. Are we wating patiently till after December 6 when we can register and get instructions or is another announcement expected?

 

I have been on the fence but have decided that if a hot swap is not offered my camera is heading to Solms on a one way ticket. If Leica choices to make us go through the inconvenience and possible expense of a recall when the could swop the camera with an updated one I don't want to continue to use Leica products. The filter hassle is a big issue for me but what makes me really upset is the shoddy way (my opinion) that we have been treated.

[marknorton]

Yes, it's all gone quiet, I guess we're waiting for the next PR effort on 6 December.

 

I don't think Leica are handling this well, there's too much spin in what should be a straightforward announcement. This is not a good situation and there's no point trying to portray it as a little local petulance by a few users. They could so easily have said this:

 

- We're sorry your camera needs repair

 

- You can choose to receive a replacement camera or return it for repair

 

- For those users willing to have their cameras repaired, we are offering a 30% discount off a lens.

 

- Your dealer (LOL) or importer (ROFLMAO) will help with the logistics of replacing or returning your camera.

 

This is not bribing the customers, it's just admitting the realities of business - which we all recognise - that it's better for Leica not to have returned cameras floating around while giving customers a choice over how they want to move forwards.

[herbkell]

Mark I agree with you.

I really don't believe it's "petulence" to expect to be treated well by a Company with Leicas reputation and who have earned thousands and thousands of my (and your) dollars over the years.

 

I personally have no need or want of a new lens so the 30% is of no value to me. I simply want and expect my camera to be replaced or I will give up.

[hestoft]

I got an email from my dealer today. He had forwarded my request to swap out my camera for an "upgraded" one to his Leica rep. Long story short, no dice. I will have to send the camera to Leica USA, who will then send it to Solms for the repair.

 

So, this is any indication, no "hot swapping" will take place.

 

Ralf-Finn Hestoft

HESTOFT | flash detection

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I have been thinking about this and seriously we have not thought of the silence as a good thing BUT it actually could mean something good. let's suppose for a second the reason for the delay is there actually trying to get everything in place to get this done and out the door and frankly out of there crawl space as quick as possible. There is a lot of logistics going on that we don't know about. Shipping back and forth , getting UPS and containers ready for customers to ship to them and ship back to Germany. leica will take care of this part and folks we will only have to put the sucker in the box and bring to a local UPS office. I'm betting on this one. Filters could be getting made, the repair maybe getting up to speed with gear , facilities and workers. maybe there is another fix there looking at , maybe they are working on more stuff on the firmware besides what we THINK. There could be a whole mess of stuff going on that takes time. Every do a car recall , it takes almost a year before they recall them. Just for a minute put your feet in there shoes and figure out if this happened to you in your business what would it take to get it to normal again. I'm waiting too, so don't think i have the patience either. i want a fix as bad as the next guy but think about this seriously. This is no easy task that there trying to do

[herbkell]

I am OK with being patient but what really got me mad was another thread with guys gleefully saying that their dealer told them that their "updated" new M8 would be received by early December. In the meantime us "first timers" have to go through waiting for instructions and then shipping the cameras back and waiting at least ten days and then gettting them shipped back. I also have customs issues to deal with.

 

Meantime the "2nd wave" folks will be enjoying their cameras over the Christmas and New Year holidays and we wont.

 

Not fair in my opinion!

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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That i do understand.

[marknorton]

So that rules out replacement cameras then... Leica are beginning to stretch our patience...

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Mine is from B&H and my 14 days are gone now for a return

[Guest stnami]

Leica figured that despite what has happened the first wave of customers will still be there in 10 years time, so what the heck, better to look after wavering second round.

[sean_reid]

Did I miss something or has a kind of hush developed over the M8 "update" "filters", "30% off deal" debacle

 

On Friday there was lots of comments and activitiy on the news that had been received from Leica and much speculation as to how the recall was going to be accomplished etc. There were also some folks demanding a "swap" not a recall. I also recall Sean saying that we going to have to eat our sarcastic words or similar as Leica would make their benevolence known "next week"

 

As far as I know we have not heard anymore and tomorrow brings the end of the week. Are we wating patiently till after December 6 when we can register and get instructions or is another announcement expected?

 

I have been on the fence but have decided that if a hot swap is not offered my camera is heading to Solms on a one way ticket. If Leica choices to make us go through the inconvenience and possible expense of a recall when the could swop the camera with an updated one I don't want to continue to use Leica products. The filter hassle is a big issue for me but what makes me really upset is the shoddy way (my opinion) that we have been treated.

 

Benevolence? Where did I say next week? Maybe for a response from them to my questions? I can't say anything about aspects that Leica has not made public yet and I don't know when they're going to do that. I had hoped to have a response from them (to my questions) by now but have nothing beyond what I published this week, see the 11/29 listing here:

The Luminous Landscape

 

They weren't yet willing to answer as many questions officially as I would have liked. There's more to discuss but the ball is in Leica's court as to when new info. goes out.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I really wish people would stop taking what Sean says out of context. It is extremely rude to him . He is one of the very few if any connection with Leica that he asks questions and very kindly relay's what they say PERIOD. People quit pissing on our source of information or that information can just disappear than you seriously will be twilding your ....... Make up your own word here.

 

Please stop blaming everyone and there brother because your not happy , return the damn thing, sell it , jump on it or eat the darn thing but stop blaming others.

 

End of rant and i am really tired of the noise. Your not alone.

 

Sorry Mods. it just had to be said

[herbkell]

Guy you have a PM

[blakley]

Before you start to feel bad about Leica's service, you might want to go here and take a look at some comments on service for the only other alternative in existence.

[marknorton]

Before you start to feel bad about Leica's service, you might want to go here and take a look at some comments on service for the only other alternative in existence.

 

Of course, that is the example of how not to do it. I don't think we're complaining about Leica Service at all - my experience of them has been excellent. The issue is much more how Leica as a company has reacted to the faults/limitations in the camera which either should have been caught in testing or been presented more openly.

 

They will fix the camera but filters (which were not required) and lens codings (which were optional) are now pretty much mandatory. Early adopters have the right to feel they've been "had", not by Leica Service, but by Leica Marketing who have doubtless asked "What's the minimum we can get away with?" Then factor in the paralysed distributor (at least here in the UK) and the dealer in denial and early M8 buyers have every right to be agrieved.

[jwr50]

For what it's worth, I spoke yesterday with Leica USA on the 30% lens discount question. They confirmed that's still being offerred for M8 purchases that are paid in full by Dec. 31, 2006. They expect additional information on this offer to be released in conjunction with the opening of the Dec. 6 registration period.

[reven]

Sorry, but what do some of you expect ? DO YOU REALLY THINK in our time today a company will tell their customes or even more important future customers, that their product doesn't work like it should.. come on. It's totally normal that you are trying to spin it as much as possible. That's normal and nothing special.

[jedbest]

There are plenty of examples of corporate America coming clean, ie Tylenol. By their forthrightness, their market share was not significantly ruined. By Leica not having any further "official" announcements, they just continue to show a lack of commitment to those who believed in them.

 

I find their position even more intolerable when you consider that their CEO, Mr Lee, came from the USA retail industry. He should know better. I wonder if Leica would have behaved the same if their was an M8 competitor from say, Zeiss.

[ddp]

I feel like I hear more from Leica than other manufacturers - honestly, when I've had issues in the past (with a large company which does not need to be named), my best source of info was the rumor mill from various net forums. Only after a fair period of speculation and annoyance did the company in question make a "statement." Even then, it was vague and at least once, I had already had the camera CLA'd and the "fix" was done almost silently.

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[mwilliamsphotography]

I have been thinking about this and seriously we have not thought of the silence as a good thing BUT it actually could mean something good. let's suppose for a second the reason for the delay is there actually trying to get everything in place to get this done and out the door and frankly out of there crawl space as quick as possible. There is a lot of logistics going on that we don't know about. Shipping back and forth , getting UPS and containers ready for customers to ship to them and ship back to Germany. leica will take care of this part and folks we will only have to put the sucker in the box and bring to a local UPS office. I'm betting on this one. Filters could be getting made, the repair maybe getting up to speed with gear , facilities and workers. maybe there is another fix there looking at , maybe they are working on more stuff on the firmware besides what we THINK. There could be a whole mess of stuff going on that takes time. Every do a car recall , it takes almost a year before they recall them. Just for a minute put your feet in there shoes and figure out if this happened to you in your business what would it take to get it to normal again. I'm waiting too, so don't think i have the patience either. i want a fix as bad as the next guy but think about this seriously. This is no easy task that there trying to do

 

Maybe, and maybe not.

 

IMO, pie in the sky speculation can be as bad as constant grousing. People are passing the threshold of returning their cameras because they get the impression everything is "going to be okay ... maybe, if, could be", etc. We all want this camera to work for us, and this leads to suspension of disbelief.

 

Not anyone's fault here, especially Sean's.

 

The dealers know as little as we do, and everyone who bought this camera isn't on this forum, so the relative numbers that the Leica dealers are dealing with are burdensome when no one knows anything for sure ... except apparently that ...

 

Hot Swap isn't going to happen ... so those with a defective camera get to wait while others in the cue get correct ones.

 

Then we'll wait some more to get the filters required to make this camera work properly ... then with the filters, comes the need to get your multi-thousands of dollars in lenses coded, at your inconvenience and expense.

 

Basically, Leica has made their problem our problem.

 

Doesn't affect me because I never paid one dime toward the M8. If it works at tomorrow's wedding ( yes Sean I got 2 filters at a huge cost, but I got 'em), I'll order a second one for next years' wedding jobs, and not worry about having to send the other back during the off season.