andybarton Posted November 30, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 30, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I found some of my early work the other day - these date back to 1979. ( The stocks and whipping post are mediaeval ) The negatives have been stored since then in a sleeve which feels like grease-proof paper and, as you will see from the scans below, there has been some degradation. I am not sure whether this is due to their age, the fact that they were stored in these sleeves, or that the sleeves were in an album that ended up in my parental home loft... The film was original FP4 and they were probably developed in D76, btw. You will see a crazing effect in the sky, and other areas. I don't think that a wash and brush up will do the trick (they are remarkably dust free - no doubt due to the fact that they were developed in the family darkroom), but if there's anything that I can do to rescue them further (see the "after" PS work example), I'd be grateful. The old, bald fellow to the left-centre of the shot with the pond is my long since departed Grandfather (the one who got me started on photography) and I'd quite like to do a print of this one if I can bring it forward a bit more. (This is a village Aldbury in Hertfordshire, if anyone's interested. I bet it looks exactly the same now, except that there will be more Chelsea tractors and satellite dishes will have replaced the aerials ) TIA As scanned Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! After some PS work As scanned Detail showing crazing effect Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! After some PS work As scanned Detail showing crazing effect ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10435-advice-on-rescue-of-27-year-old-negatives-please/?do=findComment&comment=107931'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 30, 2006 Posted November 30, 2006 Hi andybarton, Take a look here Advice on rescue of 27 year old negatives, please. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted November 30, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 30, 2006 Andy, it won't help, but I have some negatives of a similar vintage - early 70's in my case :-) - that show similar effects - in particular the crazy paving. I've put it down to poor home processing, in particular insufficient washing. I was impatient to see the results in those days! I'll post a couple tomorrow when I get home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerhardt Isringhaus Posted November 30, 2006 Share #3 Posted November 30, 2006 You can do even more with PS with the clone tool to save the image. Try re-soaking one of the negs in water with Photoflo and see what happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted December 1, 2006 Author Share #4 Posted December 1, 2006 Thanks guys. Your advice is appreciated. I shall try a wash at the weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKSC Posted December 1, 2006 Share #5 Posted December 1, 2006 Andy The continuous tone areas of sky (where the artifacts are worst) can be improved with PS. This is what I did: -Lassooed the sky -Zoomed in at 1600% -Used "replace colour" to pick out the white tone of the artifacts at the pixel level; adjusted "fuzziness" to determine the amount of white trash picked out. -Darkened selected colour -5 -repeated once more with remaining white tones -brightened up the sky again with levels -added some gaussian blur to the transition edge with the trees If you send the the full-sized file I could see what else could be done. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10435-advice-on-rescue-of-27-year-old-negatives-please/?do=findComment&comment=108092'>More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted December 1, 2006 Share #6 Posted December 1, 2006 Andy Here's what I was talking about. This is a photograph of my late father taken in December 1972 - to be exact its the 23rd of December, I'd marked the date on the envelope containing the sleeved negatives. He looks like he just received the bill for Christmas :-) There's a section in close up illustrating the crazy paving. Camera would have been a Praktica L with 50mm lens - Domiplan I think. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10435-advice-on-rescue-of-27-year-old-negatives-please/?do=findComment&comment=108670'>More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted December 1, 2006 Share #7 Posted December 1, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Looks like the emulsion and the film base may have been expanding and contracting (or not contracting) at different rates. I suspect that when in storage in the loft, there may have been some dampness and temperature below freezing. I have some similar vintage negatives which were not washed properly and they display different characteristics from your crazy paving. If I could figure out how to work PSE4 I'd post an example Cheers, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted December 1, 2006 Share #8 Posted December 1, 2006 Andy, how did you scan this negatives? if you've adopted one relatively newer scanner with digital ICE technology, pretty much of these crazing effect can be eliminated in the first place before your files even met with PS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted December 1, 2006 Share #9 Posted December 1, 2006 Simon, you can't use ICE with silver based b&w films unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted December 1, 2006 Share #10 Posted December 1, 2006 That's good to know, Steve! ... funny I have almost only shot B&W with Delta 100 then scan with my Nikon 9000, never realized that ICE won't work with silver based film ... I guess the Delta has little or no silver at all or is it just because it has virtually no grain pattern at all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted December 1, 2006 Share #11 Posted December 1, 2006 Simon it should be discussed in the instructions that came with the scanner. If you are using ICE with Delta you will be getting inferior results than scanning the same film without it. The ICE works by using an infra red channel to identify the dust due to its opaqueness. Silver grain in film is opaque, hence the scanner can't differentiate between the two. It has nothing to do with how fine or coarse the grain is itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted December 1, 2006 Share #12 Posted December 1, 2006 Thanks again, Steve ... now that sounds I'll have a LOT of homework to do! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted December 1, 2006 Share #13 Posted December 1, 2006 What a shame that Helios is not around; he would have been able to sort Andy out, no problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted December 1, 2006 Share #14 Posted December 1, 2006 Naughty, naughty Pete, let sleeping dogs lie. As I remember it. it was a bit like getting a severe lecture on how to seduce women from Graham Naughton ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted December 1, 2006 Share #15 Posted December 1, 2006 What a shame that Helios is not around; he would have been able to sort Andy out, no problem. That's an easy one: Andy should just go back in time and reshoot the scene using XP2..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
christoph_d Posted December 1, 2006 Share #16 Posted December 1, 2006 Andy, There's an entire profession busy with photorestauration. It might be worthwhile to search the web, for example: Video Aids to Film Preservation (VAFP) Further I could imagine that Kodak also has some information. Finally, to prevent recurrence, it might also be worthwhile looking for guidelines about archiving? Good luck, C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted December 1, 2006 Share #17 Posted December 1, 2006 If you are using ICE with Delta you will be getting inferior results than scanning the same film without it. The ICE works by using an infra red channel to identify the dust due to its opaqueness. Silver grain in film is opaque, hence the scanner can't differentiate between the two. It has nothing to do with how fine or coarse the grain is itself. Hi, Steve, so I just found out (after coming back home) ... because I'm running Vuescan with infrared clean set to none in the filter tab, Vuescan's proprietary cleaning function never worked and I always assumed that digital ICE would kick in by itself - provided the hardware supports it. ROFL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted December 4, 2006 Author Share #18 Posted December 4, 2006 That's an easy one: Andy should just go back in time and reshoot the scene using XP2..... I tell you what, if I could go back in time and spend just one sunny afternoon with the people in that photograph, I most certainly would. I'd take the M2 with me, this time, of course. I think he'd have approved Not had a chance to do anything further with these, yet, but will do so following the tips here. Thanks folks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 5, 2006 Share #19 Posted December 5, 2006 Andy, Have you tried the (bleeding) obvious? ie. Printing them in a darroom! You will(maybe) be amazed at what a diffuser enlarger can hide, especially relative to a modern scanner that is NOT forgiving. I must go back (again) and further investigate my archives. Some are fantastic despite being over 50 years old. Some of the older ones are stored in sleeves I made myself by fan folding foolscap sheets that had my lecture notes on and cellotaping the ends! Oh yes! I have come a long way since. Nevertheless, they have survived very well, except for some poor processing when I used chemistry to exhaustion. Cheers, Erl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebig Posted December 7, 2006 Share #20 Posted December 7, 2006 I have negs in 50 year old German sleeves, glassine paper, and over time they have aquired the same type of pattern in the emulsion. My guess is a result of humidity and the pressure of the negs packed together. I have carfully rewashed, re-photo-flo and dried and it improved a few - but hardly enough to justify the effort. Scanning with ICE has been arduous. So far I've mainly used cloning and healing to correct. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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