Interest in M9 weakening?

[marcusperkins]

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I was chatting to a respected Leica dealer the other day. I was surprised to hear that quite a number of photographers who had put their name on the list for the M9 have now pulled out.

 

There is no doubt that the dealer could sell every M9 they could get their hands on, but it seems the clamour has died down.

 

Now the 'novelty' aspect of the M9 has been reduced, I guess some photographers are simply wondering if spending yet another £5,000 is really such a good idea.

 

Despite my own reservations at the time, if the dealer had an available body in stock at the time of launch, I too would probably have bought one.

 

Now I've really had time to think about it, if one came up tomorrow, I think I'd pass. For the little time I use the Leica these days, film is the cheapest (and actually the most fun) option.

 

However, if one shoots Leica exclusively, then the M9 makes sense.

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[fotolebrocq]

Yes, I have now pulled out of my order. I bought a GF1 as an interim walk around while waiting for the M9 and it is so much fun to use that this (together with my 2 5D Mk11 for serious work) will make more sense for me. No, it is clearly not an M9 in IQ terms but it's very good especially with the 20mm pancake and the quite amazing 7-14.

[stunsworth]

Maybe it's down to people being on multiple waiting lists.

[spersky]

I dropped of 4 waiting lists since I have mine coming today. BTW, the GF1 and the canon G11 etc are awesome cameras. The thing that kills me about those cameras is that they have horrible bokeh, and fastest aperture is usually 2.4-2.9, and that is at wide angle. So you can forget about nice portraits.

[bill]

I dropped of 4 waiting lists since I have mine coming today.

 

Steve's point exactly.

 

This is exactly why some dealers - reasonably in my view - have asked for deposits, thereby separating the genuine buyers from the timewasters.

 

If everyone has put themselves on five waiting lists as you did, then the "demand" for M9s is grossly overstated...

 

If Leica took the demand figures at face value - which I don't doubt for a moment they have not - they would be gearing up for massive overproduction vs. true demand.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Guest EarlBurrellPhoto]

I took myself off the waiting list after using an M9 for a week, lent me by a colleague. I had hoped for enough improvements on top of the FF, that I would want to leave the M8. Not only did I find there to be only slight improvement in high-ISO, I was actually put off by the incomplete resolution of the IR issue with no in-camera provision for using front IR filters when needed, by the deletion of the top screen, and by the reversion to the tighter 1m framelines. FF alone is just not enough of an issue to compel me to such a large expense. I firmly believe that an upgraded version that revises some or all of those issues is right around the corner, and a truly improved version (new sensor) is not that far off. Thus even if I were interested in an M9 I would be waiting until a next version is announced and the devout disciples of Leica follow the siren's call, and prices on the M9 are sure to plummet.

[jonoslack]

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I had hoped for enough improvements on top of the FF, that I would want to leave the M8. (snip), I was actually put off by the incomplete resolution of the IR issue with no in-camera provision for using front IR filters when needed,

 

Hi Earl

It would be a big investment in Leica's behalf to cure a problem that (as far as I can see) you are the only person complaining about.

 

I hope you don't have to wait too long

 

As far as the framelines are concerned - I actually rather agree, but I'm sure that can be fixed later with an upgrade (together with a sapphire back which we'd all like).

 

 

My dealer said that they suffered a lot from people on multiple lists - mind you, you can see why people do it, I sometimes wonder why I didn't!

[wattsy]

I was chatting to a respected Leica dealer the other day.

 

Len?

 

It doesn't surprise me that interest seems to be dropping off. I'm sure there are lots of reasons - e.g. waiting time has dimmed the initial 'must have' enthusiasm; buyers can no longer be first kid on the block with one; the M9 is yesterday's story; Christmas is coming up; realisation that the M8 is more than adequate for needs; internet rumours of various problems; and so on. I suspect that Leica have lost a fair number of customers now (and possibly for good) who would have bought an M9 had stock been available in September.

[Guest EarlBurrellPhoto]

Hi Earl

It would be a big investment in Leica's behalf to cure a problem that (as far as I can see) you are the only person complaining about.

 

I hope you don't have to wait too long

 

 

The colleague who lent me his M9 has also sold it (to an amateur, who likely will not be bothered by the IR if he even notices it). I know several more who have passed on the M9 for this reason. Just because there aren't more people on a Leica Fanclub website complaining about it, doesn't mean it isn't an issue that's turning people away from the camera. I also think it may have to do with what other camera system one shoots. Canon is especially good with blocking IR. My other Canon shooting colleagues can see residual IR in Nikon shots (admittedly I've not looked for it so I've no opinion one way or t'other).

 

I'm quite satisfied with the M8+filters, so if there is never a resolution to the IR issue forthcoming from Leica, I'm still good.

[Guest EarlBurrellPhoto]

Len?

 

It doesn't surprise me that interest seems to be dropping off. I'm sure there are lots of reasons - e.g. waiting time has dimmed the initial 'must have' enthusiasm; buyers can no longer be first kid on the block with one; the M9 is yesterday's story; Christmas is coming up; realisation that the M8 is more than adequate for needs; internet rumours of various problems; and so on. I suspect that Leica have lost a fair number of customers now (and possibly for good) who would have bought an M9 had stock been available in September.

 

I agree. Leica's biggest faux-pas from a business standpoint is to have let the momentum slip and not have struck whilst the iron was hot. It's childishly naiive to think Leica isn't already hard at work on the M9's successor, and guaranteed the months delivery of the M9 is delayed are coming straight out of its product life, not pushing the successor's intro back.

[jaapv]

Len?

 

It doesn't surprise me that interest seems to be dropping off. I'm sure there are lots of reasons - e.g. waiting time has dimmed the initial 'must have' enthusiasm; buyers can no longer be first kid on the block with one; the M9 is yesterday's story; Christmas is coming up; realisation that the M8 is more than adequate for needs; internet rumours of various problems; and so on. I suspect that Leica have lost a fair number of customers now (and possibly for good) who would have bought an M9 had stock been available in September.

Is it such a bad thing to have motivated users then? There is a thing like long-time reputation and disappointed customers who bought for the wrong reasons are not helpful in that respect. Maybe it is a personal thing, but after using the M9 for a few months, I find the M8 far less appealing than I used to think. So I expect a number of second-think non-buyers will return, when the M9 will have found its way into photographers' circles.

[stunsworth]

I agree. Leica's biggest faux-pas from a business standpoint is to have let the momentum slip and not have struck whilst the iron was hot.

 

So if you were running Leica, how would you have satisfied the initial demand? Would you have employed and trained more technicians to assemble the cameras, or would you have delayed the launch until the existing workforce had built sufficient bodies to satisfy the demand following the launch? Or would you have adopted some other strategy?

[RockyIII]

Hi Earl

My dealer said that they suffered a lot from people on multiple lists - mind you, you can see why people do it, I sometimes wonder why I didn't!

 

I am only on one waiting list. I think in the long run it helps to maintain a stronger and reliable relationship with my dealer.

 

Rocky

[noah_addis]

Yes, interest in the M9 seems to be in the toilet. Just ask the guy bidding $10k on ebay:D

 

I am only on one waiting list. I think in the long run it helps to maintain a stronger and reliable relationship with my dealer.

 

Rocky

 

I am only on one list as well, while I got my first M9 I'm waiting for a second. (Please don't think I'm being greedy, as a pro two cameras are the absolute minimum since backup is a must.)

 

While it's perfectly legal to be on multiple lists since most are non-binding, it seems to me somehow unethical. My dealer has treated me extremely well in the past so I want to repay that good service with my loyalty.

 

I'm sure lots of people are on multiple lists. And I also have a feeling lots of people got caught up in the initial excitement and got on a list even though they didn't really need the camera, or maybe they realized it's a lot of cash to spend, or whatever.

 

I don't think there will be a replacement in a year or two (possibly three) but I do figure Leica will offer upgrades, which I probably won't be interested in.

[marcusperkins]

Ultimately it is good news for those that really want the M9 - so there should be no complaints at all.

 

There appears to have been remarkably few problems with the M9 to date, so I think many would rather wait for a well built camera, than have a rushed one.

 

Besides Leica must know it cannot afford to release a batch of rushed cameras - far more damaging long term than slow production.

 

I'm sure this time next year you'll be able to walk into most Leica stores and buy one off the shelf. By that time there may also be one or two improvements to things like the frame lines, formatting, and preview speed.

[nryn]

This is exactly why some dealers - reasonably in my view - have asked for deposits, thereby separating the genuine buyers from the timewasters.

 

But let's be clear--if they end up with an M9, they're all genuine buyers just hedging their bets on who will end up being a genuine supplier. You can call it timewasting I suppose but it's only that from a dealer point of view. From a consumer point of view, without more info from Leica and without a centralized production list (say M9s were available a-la-carte), anyone who really wants one should be able to play the field.

 

For a variety of reasons I'm only on one list in the U.S., but the situation here is we don't know how many M9s are entering the country and what the distribution model across dealers is. It seems just as likely that you'll get a camera from the mom and pop store down the street as you would from a major retailer. So in my opinion dealers requiring deposits have a better outlook on their pipeline, but if and when Leica starts catching up with demand, they won't pick up any additional sales from individuals just looking to get a camera from whomever. In other words, regardless of whether you've put down a deposit, getting or not getting a camera is still a crapshoot, so unless your allegiance to a dealer is stronger than your desire to get a camera, why put down a deposit?

[jonoslack]

Yes, interest in the M9 seems to be in the toilet. Just ask the guy bidding $10k on ebay:D

 

 

 

I am only on one list as well, while I got my first M9 I'm waiting for a second. (Please don't think I'm being greedy, as a pro two cameras are the absolute minimum since backup is a must.)

 

While it's perfectly legal to be on multiple lists since most are non-binding, it seems to me somehow unethical. My dealer has treated me extremely well in the past so I want to repay that good service with my loyalty.

Hi Noah

My feeling exactly - much better to be consistent.

I agree about another camera - it took 3 years to do the very necessary enhancements for the M9 - I'd be very surprised if the next one was much sooner . . . unless it was something completely different.

 

Like you, I'd guess that sapphire screens and framelines will be available for those who want to pay for them.

[epand56]

So if you were running Leica, how would you have satisfied the initial demand? Would you have employed and trained more technicians to assemble the cameras, or would you have delayed the launch until the existing workforce had built sufficient bodies to satisfy the demand following the launch? Or would you have adopted some other strategy?

 

I think it is quite stupid to launch any kind of objects and then do not give them to the dealer for people that would like to buy them.

The M9 is no more an objet du désir, and many dealer still do not have it for their customers.

I think the 9/9/9 turned out to be a ridiculous happening. The dealer in my town got 2 in 2 months. It is almost easier to buy a Ferrari.

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[stunsworth]

I think it is quite stupid to launch any kind of objects and then do not give them to the dealer for people that would like to buy them.

 

Fair enough, but how would you have manufactured them?

 

The point I'm trying to make is that Leica is a small company, and in the real world they have limited choices regarding how many 'things' they can manufacture for a product launch. Sure it would have been great for them to have had 5,000 M9s available on day one of the release, but the reality is that there's no possible way they could have done that.

[noah_addis]

I think it is quite stupid to launch any kind of objects and then do not give them to the dealer for people that would like to buy them.

The M9 is no more an objet du désir, and many dealer still do not have it for their customers.

I think the 9/9/9 turned out to be a ridiculous happening. The dealer in my town got 2 in 2 months. It is almost easier to buy a Ferrari.

 

I agree that it would be nice if the M9 were more readily available. But what should Leica do? Stockpile thousands of cameras before making them available? That may be great for the consumer but bad for Leica, which would have to have tons of cash wrapped up in cameras sitting in a warehouse.

 

I'm not happy about the situation, but I do realize Leica is a small company with limited production ability. And limited cash flow. So I think our options are to be patient and wait for an M9 (or two) or go buy a ferrari instead, which may help me to get to my assignments faster but I'd have nothing to take pictures with once I got there:D.

 

I'm actually amazed by the incredible demand, though I think it will settle down as the initial orders are filled.