Sean Reid's X1 Part 2 Review is up

[sean_reid]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

From what I've read so far, the X1 is clearly (and sadly) not designed for manual or zone focus although it is of course possible with some effort.

 

Having used the camera extensively with zone focus, I'd say its excellent for that purpose. I agree with you on manual focus per se - that needs work and I'm hopeful they can fix the auto aperture problem which is screwing things up for screen based MF.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

For a comparison, I just tested the GF1 performance with both the 20mm f1.7 prime and the 14-45mm kit lens. Performance was measured with the camera set to AF, P mode, shooting a millisecond stop watch on the computer monitor starting with a full press including AF time in each capture for ten measure per lens and then averaged. The 14-45 Kit lens achieved an average including AF with full presses (not 1/2 press to pre focus) of 0.323 sec and with the 20mm prime 0.645 sec.

 

A Sigma DP2 measures at 1.4 sec according to DPR and the Sony DSC HX1 about0.5 sec.

 

.645 with the 20/1.7 on the GF1 seems like it might be right. I haven't tested AF and shutter lag together yet but that number seems in the ballpark. For those who want to try this with various cameras, I use this stopwatch: Online Stopwatch

 

Of course this kind of testing must include our own reaction times and time it takes to depress the shutter.

 

I'm testing the GF1 now and it is fast in AF for a contrast-detection system (so is the Ricoh GR3 BTW). The limitation with the GF1 for zone focus seems to be that it lacks a distance scale for setting focus distance directly. If there is some function to turn that on, please let me know because I haven't found it in the manual or by experimenting with the menu.

 

Otherwise the GF1 seems very impressive in many ways. I'm testing with a 20/1.7 and a CV 40 finder. Wish the thing had an AF confirm light for the latter but Panasonic seems to be throwing its lot in with the EVF and designing accordingly on this camera. But at least the shoe is there and fairly close to the lens.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[maddav]

For shooting human beings (as opposed to, say, landscapes), a shutter lag of 1 second ruins the camera.

 

Truly there are many situations where you are waiting for something to happen and in this case you could half-press the button before... But there are also many many situations where you want to just grab the camera and shoot. Even when you are waiting for something to happen, you typically make adjustments and don't want to be continuously pressing the button.

 

This camera is advertised on the Leica website as 'as spontaneous as life' (with a nice picture of someone diving) and if indeed there is a 1 sec lag in the production version that sounds like a joke.

[sean_reid]

For shooting human beings (as opposed to, say, landscapes), a shutter lag of 1 second ruins the camera.

 

Truly there are many situations where you are waiting for something to happen and in this case you could half-press the button before... But there are also many many situations where you want to just grab the camera and shoot. Even when you are waiting for something to happen, you typically make adjustments and don't want to be continuously pressing the button.

 

This camera is advertised on the Leica website as 'as spontaneous as life' (with a nice picture of someone diving) and if indeed there is a 1 sec lag in the production version that sounds like a joke.

 

1) I agree that lag should be gone

 

2) Speaking for my own use only: I never just grab the camera because I always compose (even before the camera comes to my eye). So I always have time to half-press before I release the shutter because I need at least a moment to build the picture before I make it.

 

But the lag should be gone and believe it or not I'm about to test new firmware already this morning.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[dkCambridgeshire]

1) I agree that lag should be gone

 

2) Speaking for my own use only: I never just grab the camera because I always compose (even before the camera comes to my eye). So I always have time to half-press before I release the shutter because I need at least a moment to build the picture before I make it.

 

But the lag should be gone and believe it or not I'm about to test new firmware already this morning.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

That was quick!

 

Look forward to hearing about new firmware results soon.

 

Cheers

 

dunk

[khanosu]

I'm about to test new firmware already this morning.

 

 

Nice!!!!

 

Thanks for all the hard work!

 

Furrukh

[Douglasco]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

At least you know Leica take notice of your reviews Sean and are willing to act on them.

[sean_reid]

At least you know Leica take notice of your reviews Sean and are willing to act on them.

 

Yes, they do indeed. In fact, they communicate with me quite a lot.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Nice!!!!

 

Thanks for all the hard work!

 

Furrukh

 

You're welcome. Comes with the job. I'm working out some technical issues with uploading two kinds of firmware changes now but I will publish the timings if they change with this firmware update.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[jsrockit]

 

This "review of the reviews" does not talk at length about what Leica leaves out, is what maybe makes a Leica Camera distinctive and superior. Fewer buttons. No scene modes. Simpler menu. One lens, not more. Smaller, not larger. It certainly goes against our consumer instinct to get "more" for our money, when we are faced with a purchase decision to pay more for "less". You have to really twist your brain around this kind of thing.

 

I agree with this...it's the camera's appeal for me.

[maddav]

Let's wait and see. But that shutter lag issue contradicts what I had heard at the Leica shop in Solms: that the AF would of course need some time to focus but that otherwise there would be no significant lag...

[sean_reid]

Let's wait and see. But that shutter lag issue contradicts what I had heard at the Leica shop in Solms: that the AF would of course need some time to focus but that otherwise there would be no significant lag...

 

That is their goal indeed. The contradiction is between what is intended and, for now, what actually happens in use with firmware .72i.

[ottocrat]

Great to hear that they've already tweaked their firmware - but they've done it so quickly, it begs the question: why did they have to wait until they got some feedback from a couple of reviewers? Are there no photographers at Leica?

 

Anyway, good news, look forward to hearing the feedback.

 

Sean, I hesitate to draw on your apparently bottomless well of goodwill yet again but are you able to give any insight into focusing with the optical viewfinder attached? Is one more or less forced to use zone focus, or guesstimate with a centre-spot AF?

[barjohn]

I have posted this question on DPR but in case you didn't see it.

 

Sean,

I have seen what you can do with zone focusing and for general outdoor use on a bright day f8 may be fine; however, it takes a lot of light so that the shutter speed is not so low that camera shake doesn't spoil the shot and these small light cameras are particularly prone to camera shake due to their low mass (moment of inertia). Therefore, can you tell us more about the camera's auto focus. Here I mean more than AF speed. How well does it AF in low light? How well does it do on focusing where you want it to focus as opposed to where it thinks it should focus? How easy is it to pick a focus point that is not at the center of the frame? If you never looked at the LCD but did have an optical finder on it and was running around taking shots, aperture set wide open and just seeing the AF light go green while framing with the OVF how many would be keepers? How often would you miss shots while the AF hunted for focus if you were trying to catch a moment? Is it family and friends friendly, you know you have this as a carry everywhere camera and you are out with friends and you want a picture of the group so you set it to full auto and hand it to a waiter to take a snap of the group of you will you get a sharp well focused shot or something else?

 

I suspect that the vast majority of users will not use MF and zone focusing. It requires much greater skill and very good lighting. At lower light levels, f8 translates into a very slow shutter speed and that means you need IS, a rock steady hand or a tripod. Once you throw the latter in you might as well carry an SLR because the combined weight and bulk of camera plus tripod will exceed many small DSLRs. Therefore AF performance is critical to the use of the camera. I can speak from experience with the EP-1 that its AF was too slow though I loved its in body IS. Can you elaborate on overall AF performance, for example I have seen cameras that even after you have 1/2 pressed to focus on a subject and you are waiting for the right moment; as you fully depress the shutter button it suddenly tries to refocus the scene leading to delay and a lost shot. It might be because you slightly moved the camera or the subject slightly moved.

 

Lastly, on MF, not using zone focusing but shooting wide open; how difficult is it to get a good sharp focus using the LCD and a thumb wheel? With the high resolution LCD on the GF1 and using the lens barrel focus ring it is quite easy. I find it even easier using the EVF because I can hold the camera steadier and one of the challenges with the magnified image is that camera shake gets amplified too. However, I find that I can get surprisingly sharp focus without using the magnification much of the time. Thanks for your information.

[sean_reid]

I have posted this question on DPR but in case you didn't see it.

 

Sean,

I have seen what you can do with zone focusing and for general outdoor use on a bright day f8 may be fine; however, it takes a lot of light so that the shutter speed is not so low that camera shake doesn't spoil the shot and these small light cameras are particularly prone to camera shake due to their low mass (moment of inertia). Therefore, can you tell us more about the camera's auto focus. Here I mean more than AF speed. How well does it AF in low light? How well does it do on focusing where you want it to focus as opposed to where it thinks it should focus? How easy is it to pick a focus point that is not at the center of the frame? If you never looked at the LCD but did have an optical finder on it and was running around taking shots, aperture set wide open and just seeing the AF light go green while framing with the OVF how many would be keepers? How often would you miss shots while the AF hunted for focus if you were trying to catch a moment? Is it family and friends friendly, you know you have this as a carry everywhere camera and you are out with friends and you want a picture of the group so you set it to full auto and hand it to a waiter to take a snap of the group of you will you get a sharp well focused shot or something else?

 

I suspect that the vast majority of users will not use MF and zone focusing. It requires much greater skill and very good lighting. At lower light levels, f8 translates into a very slow shutter speed and that means you need IS, a rock steady hand or a tripod. Once you throw the latter in you might as well carry an SLR because the combined weight and bulk of camera plus tripod will exceed many small DSLRs. Therefore AF performance is critical to the use of the camera. I can speak from experience with the EP-1 that its AF was too slow though I loved its in body IS. Can you elaborate on overall AF performance, for example I have seen cameras that even after you have 1/2 pressed to focus on a subject and you are waiting for the right moment; as you fully depress the shutter button it suddenly tries to refocus the scene leading to delay and a lost shot. It might be because you slightly moved the camera or the subject slightly moved.

 

Lastly, on MF, not using zone focusing but shooting wide open; how difficult is it to get a good sharp focus using the LCD and a thumb wheel? With the high resolution LCD on the GF1 and using the lens barrel focus ring it is quite easy. I find it even easier using the EVF because I can hold the camera steadier and one of the challenges with the magnified image is that camera shake gets amplified too. However, I find that I can get surprisingly sharp focus without using the magnification much of the time. Thanks for your information.

 

Hi John,

 

Lots of questions. Let me come back to this when I have more time. Lots going on here.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Great to hear that they've already tweaked their firmware - but they've done it so quickly, it begs the question: why did they have to wait until they got some feedback from a couple of reviewers? Are there no photographers at Leica?

 

Anyway, good news, look forward to hearing the feedback.

 

Sean, I hesitate to draw on your apparently bottomless well of goodwill yet again but are you able to give any insight into focusing with the optical viewfinder attached? Is one more or less forced to use zone focus, or guesstimate with a centre-spot AF?

 

I'm sure the work in this newer version of the firmware was ongoing before my review was published. More later.

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Retested with firmware 1.00 and also found the culprit for the full press delay which, in this FW version at least, is only present if the camera is displaying a review image when the shutter is pressed.

[ottocrat]

That's really welcome news.

[sean_reid]

That's really welcome news.

 

You betcha...now if they can fix the lag from the review image being up (thought that's not as big a deal) it would be really great.

 

Actually have a phone conference with Leica tomorrow AM. Yes, that's Sunday. They are serious about this little camera.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Guest stnami]

They have to be as at this stage the competition is ahead in performance, no matter how good the image quality is one has to be able to get the image. Gone are the days of Leiter, Friedlander, Winogrand, Frank , Eggleston when life was of a slower pace.

These days you need a camera that responds quickly, there is no time to fiddle with apertures and speed, lags etc. The photographer out in the street is no longer a friend, he/she is tolerated with suspicion and your 28/35mm is starting to become a very much in your face focal length, with the portrait length lens is becoming a good friend in the streets