D&A Posted November 11, 2009 Share #1 Posted November 11, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi All, What I'm trying to determine is the following: 1. I already have a Metz 54 Mz3 (no i). I believe though I can still use it with a 3502 module for TTL (GNC) with the Leica M8 & M9? 2. After reading through this and other threads, I still cannot determine if the length of time between the preflash and subsequent flash with the Metz 54 s with the 3502 module is longer than the new leica 58 flash? Most say with the newer 58 flash it's almost instantanious...is it that way with the 54 flash? 3. The having to wake up the camera's meter prior to being ale to triiger the flash...resulting generally in 2 presses of the shutter button or one very slow press...I assume it's the same for both the Metz 54 flash as well as the newer 58 flash? 4. One thing I do know is use of the Metz 54 does not allow flash exposure compensation in TTL mode with the Leica's. What I'm trying to do is decern the difference of use with these two flashes on the M8/M9 Many thanks! Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 Hi D&A, Take a look here Metz 54 MZ series Flash vs. New Leica 58 Flash on M8/M9. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wparsonsgisnet Posted November 11, 2009 Share #2 Posted November 11, 2009 Hi All, What I'm trying to determine is the following: 1. I already have a Metz 54 Mz3 (no i). I believe though I can still use it with a 3502 module for TTL (GNC) with the Leica M8 & M9? 2. After reading through this and other threads, I still cannot determine if the length of time between the preflash and subsequent flash with the Metz 54 s with the 3502 module is longer than the new leica 58 flash? Most say with the newer 58 flash it's almost instantanious...is it that way with the 54 flash? 3. The having to wake up the camera's meter prior to being ale to triiger the flash...resulting generally in 2 presses of the shutter button or one very slow press...I assume it's the same for both the Metz 54 flash as well as the newer 58 flash? 4. One thing I do know is use of the Metz 54 does not allow flash exposure compensation in TTL mode with the Leica's. What I'm trying to do is decern the difference of use with these two flashes on the M8/M9 Many thanks! Dave (D&A) Dave, I believe Sean Reid said the 58 with GNC is faster than the 54. I believe this was in reference to the M9. I have used the 54 with my M8 (not yet with the M9) and as stated in the other thread the shutter must be pressed slowly (but only once) to activate the flash properly. I believe the camera is evaluating what it is seeing in the light meter before firing the flash. I do not use GNC. I don't like pre-flash, except for inanimate subjects. I also find that the GNC gives me too little light from the flash. I always use Auto, and the M8 always gets the light right. How nice we can take test pix. I really like my 54. It's great to have a Mack truck in my photo bag. Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted November 11, 2009 Hi Bill, Thanks ever so much for the reply! Like yourself, I've used Metz flashes for years, right next to or besides Nikon SB flashes...most recently SB800's & 900's. I realize from previous postings that you use your Metz "54" flash on "auto" rather than TTL (GNC) with your m8's. I too on those occasions when using flash with the leica, resort to Auto..yet there are times when TTL (GNC) would have some advantages. Sean's excellent review of the Leica 58 flash from the last time I read about it on his site, didn't do a direct comparison with the Metz 54 (in TTL). Thats what I am looking for. The difference in length between preflash and main flash and also the issue of the camera body waking up. I think when you're pushing the shutter very slowly in "Auto"..you are giiving the camera's meter time to wake up and by the time you fire the shutter...you can do it in one motion. Normally if one presses the shutter quickly when using say the 24d flash, it has to be pressed twice..once to wake up the meter and the second time to fire the shutter. Maybe someone with a metz 54 flash and Leicas new 58 flash can compare them in some of the areas I mentioned. Again many thanks! Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted November 11, 2009 Share #4 Posted November 11, 2009 Hi All,4. One thing I do know is use of the Metz 54 does not allow flash exposure compensation in TTL mode with the Leica's. It doesn't allow flash exposure compensation in GNC mode on digital Leica's, but allow it in TTL mode on some film Leica's. Lucien Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted November 11, 2009 Share #5 Posted November 11, 2009 I havent used the 58 but the 54 with adapter and according to Metz support the main difference is that with the 54 the gnc doesnt work if you use the second (small) reflector, but it does with the 58 and both reflectors. I know Sean wrote that the lag with the 58 is shoter, but I am still not convinced it is. I feel however that the M9 with the 54 is much shorter lag than it was with M8 and early firmware. I might be able to borrow a SF58 and to compare-but my feeling is that I will stay with the 54. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted November 11, 2009 Share #6 Posted November 11, 2009 ... my feeling is that I will stay with the 54. It is wonderfully powerful. That, plus a Quantum battery, fills a room with light. Love that F8 at a wedding -- over and over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted November 11, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks everyone for the replies so far! Tom, a few specific questions foir you..... 1. I assume your M8 didn't have the latest firmware when you were observed preflash/flash lag *delay) time in GNC with the 54MZ..and that the M8 might be as short as with the M9 if the M8 had latest firmware? Whether it will be as short as compared to the new 58 flash, I'd love to know (with M8 & M9) 2. Although as I understand it and was posted in one of the replies here...flash compensatioon cannot be used with the Metz 54 in GNC with the M8/M9. Yet, I assume when you change the aparture on the lens in GNC, and then the pre-flash will determine new correct exposure without having to change any other settings on the flash at that point? I assume this is one advanatge over "Auto" mode! So at this point what I am trying to determine is the following: 1. Is the delay time between the preflash & Main Flash really different between the Metz 54MZ4 and Leica 58 flash, with the 58 flash being that much shorter? Since I will be using both the M8 and M9, this too would be a consideration. I think though the M8 as suggested, must have the latest firmware to reduce the lag time between preflash & flash to something akin to the M9 2. Its aparent that the secondary small flash does not work in TTL (GNC) with the Metz 54 and M8/M9. Is it with certainty that with the 58 flash, the secondary small flash WILL work in TTL (GNC) with the M8/M9? Since the flash I will be setting up for the M8/M9 will be the 54 Mz3 (not Mz4) with the appropriate Metz Leica module, I don't think it being the MZ3 as opposed to the Mz4 will make any difference..will it? Thanks! Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mc_k Posted November 11, 2009 Share #8 Posted November 11, 2009 I have never noticed a problem with closed eyes with the SF24 preflash. I usually am at 10 ft. with the Sfill diffuser. You are going to get some closed eyes even without flash; are you sure the preflash is really a problem in practice? I just got the 58 and would like to put it on a bracket to balance the camera in vertical position...any idea what cord I would use? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted November 11, 2009 I believe a Nikon Sc28 or SC-29 cord will work just fine with your Leica 58 flash off camera. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. Getting back to my posting above, I just realized something. If I use the Metz 54 flash with correct SCA module (3502) on M8/M9, in TTL (GNC) this combo does not allow flash compensation. Therefore if shooting the camera in Apature Priority with 54flsh/3502 module, there is no simple way to adjust or reduce flash exposure. Changing aparture on lens to alter ambient light exposure won't work since the TTL (GNC) system will just end up compensating for the change. Any work arounds to flash compensation using M8/M9 in Apature Priority along with Metz 54MZ flash (using TTL/GNC control)? Thanks! Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted November 11, 2009 Share #10 Posted November 11, 2009 I believe a Nikon Sc28 or SC-29 cord will work just fine with your Leica 58 flash off camera. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.... If the SC-29 is the cord with the sensor in the shoe, it has been suggested that it will not work with Leica/"Metz" (read:58 flash) units. I believe the SC-28 is just an extension cord with no smarts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted November 11, 2009 Bill is exactly right! I was thinking of extension cords SC-17 or S9-28 ...both basically the same except which way the cord exists the adapter that fits into the hot shoe. Either one of these will work. Now if I an only find the specific answers to the questions I posed in the posts I made "above". Thanks! Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mc_k Posted November 11, 2009 Share #12 Posted November 11, 2009 thanks Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 12, 2009 Share #13 Posted November 12, 2009 Is it with certainty that with the 58 flash, the secondary small flash WILL work in TTL (GNC) with the M8/M9? Yes, I can confirm the secondary flash on the SF-58 works in TTL mode. I can't answer your other questions. Although I also have the 54 MZ flash, I don't have the most up to date module so have only used it in auto or manual mode on my M8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted November 12, 2009 Hi Ian, Thanks for the very useful info! With regards to your 54MZ flash, which Metz 3502 module do you have with it...a "M4" or "M5" or something earlier. If it's earlier than M4, I believe you cannot use the flash in TTL (GNC) control, just Auto and regular Manual, as you mentioned. I'm still hoping someone can answer the rest of the questions I posted above, in this thread. Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 12, 2009 Share #15 Posted November 12, 2009 With regards to your 54MZ flash, which Metz 3502 module do you have with it...a "M4" or "M5" or something earlier. M3 I think. The module dates back to the days when I used the 54MZ with an M7 and I've never tried it with the M8. I've always used the 54MZ with the standard foot since acquiring the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted November 12, 2009 Share #16 Posted November 12, 2009 I believe a Nikon Sc28 or SC-29 cord will work just fine with your Leica 58 flash off camera. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. Getting back to my posting above, I just realized something. If I use the Metz 54 flash with correct SCA module (3502) on M8/M9, in TTL (GNC) this combo does not allow flash compensation. Therefore if shooting the camera in Apature Priority with 54flsh/3502 module, there is no simple way to adjust or reduce flash exposure. Changing aparture on lens to alter ambient light exposure won't work since the TTL (GNC) system will just end up compensating for the change. Any work arounds to flash compensation using M8/M9 in Apature Priority along with Metz 54MZ flash (using TTL/GNC control)? Thanks! Dave (D&A) Dave, I do the following: I use the Metz remote cord; I think this is the SCA 3008 A cord. This is a NOT-very-long coiled cord with a sensor that fits in the hot shoe. I place the Metz 54 on auto, and the sensor in the shoe takes care of the light information. I can then set the aperture on the M8 to anything I want. I haven't done any flash with the M9 yet, but expect the same functionality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted November 12, 2009 Hi Bill, Thanks for the info. I used to use a great deal of the Metz system quite a few years ago, but when they couldn't keep up with the changes in flash compatibility in the major manufactures DSLR's, I had to abandon them like many. The sensor in the cord you are refering to works great if one is using "Auto" as the flash mode. If one was using TTL or TTL(GNC) control, like the Metz flashes can be sued with the Leica M8/M9 with the appropriate SCA module, then the sensor doesn't play a role. In that case then even the simple Nikon Sc-17 or SC-28 should be fine for off camera flash with the Metz MZ flash and The M8/M9. WIth GNC control using the MZ3 or MZ4 flash and M8/M9, I'm trying to determine if the time between pre-flash and flash is longer than with the new Leica SF58 flash. So far no definitive answer from someone who has both flash systems and compared the two on either the M8 or M9. Thanks again! Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted November 12, 2009 Share #18 Posted November 12, 2009 Hah! You have posed a nice problem -- that requires that all 5 of those who have their hands on an M9 also own an M8 as well as the Metz 54 and the new Leica 58 flash. You may be waiting for a while for an answer to this particular question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share #19 Posted November 13, 2009 Hi Bill, Well they do say miracles do happen! In the meantime, any combination of experiences with the M8 or M9 and the 54MZ and/or SF58, will gladly be accepted. Thanks! Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted November 13, 2009 Share #20 Posted November 13, 2009 I will be glad to see if there is a difference between the M8 and M( with GNC, using the Metz 54. I'll post my qualitative results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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