AlanG Posted November 9, 2009 Share #21 Posted November 9, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) i don't know whether live view would be a good idea on a leica m, mainly because the aperture on the lense is controlled manually. unless you have it on maximum aperture, the light going to to the sensor be greatly reduced. slr lens apertures are always wide open until the shutter is released. for this reason, i don't think live view would be good on a leica m. I often preview live view at the taking aperture not wide open. And I have some manual aperture lenses that I use on it stopped down. I just went into a pretty dark room, set the lens to f22 and pressed the depth of field preview button. The image stayed bright and clear. In any case, you are probably going to be close to wide open in really low light situations. I would suggest trying live view for a while before dismissing it. If nothing else to eliminate incorrect assumptions - electronic shutter, not good stopped down, LCD not sharp enough, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Hi AlanG, Take a look here Live view. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
AlanG Posted November 9, 2009 Share #22 Posted November 9, 2009 on what camera? I explained that above when I expanded the reply. By the way, the 5DII has several different live view still modes. I'm not sure how some other cameras do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheewai_m6 Posted November 9, 2009 Share #23 Posted November 9, 2009 I often preview live view at the taking aperture not wide open. And I have some manual aperture lenses that I use on it stopped down. I just went into a pretty dark room, set the lens to f22 and pressed the depth of field preview button. The image stayed bright and clear. In any case, you are probably going to be close to wide open in really low light situations. I would suggest trying live view for a while before dismissing it. If nothing else to eliminate incorrect assumptions - electronic shutter, not good stopped down, LCD not sharp enough, etc. i didn't mention anything about a shutter or lcd being sharp enough. and i have tried live view on a nikon d90, although i didn't try the dov preview. if it works, then it works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 9, 2009 Share #24 Posted November 9, 2009 i didn't mention anything about a shutter or lcd being sharp enough. and i have tried live view on a nikon d90, although i didn't try the dov preview. if it works, then it works. I didn't mean to imply that you had all of those incorrect assuptions. Just that people have made numerous posts that indicate lack of full knowledge of how live view actually works. I've never used a D90 but considering it has a hi res LCD, using a Hoodman loupe or a Zacuto Z finder on it should work as well as what I'm seeing. I really haven't any inside information what is keeping the M from geting live view but I'd guess the sensor is the biggest issue. (Considering the X1 is live view only, it isn't one of philosophy.) Many MF users I know express a desire for live view because it is often hard to focus those cameras accurately enough to get the most out of their expensive ultra hi res sensors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted November 9, 2009 Share #25 Posted November 9, 2009 I recently bought an 8.2 as a prequel to getting a M9. Since doing this the D700 and all its lenses have rarely come out the bag. Now I do like shooting wide and do interior and cityscape work and with the D700, which is an SLR, framing is no problem when it comes to parallel lines etc and I hardly ever use the ‘live-view’ feature. Now I have bought the WATE plus its dedicated viewfinder and really love the quality of the lens but framing, even when done with great care, is really a pain when it comes to parallels etc.Now I know that it would be going against the whole ‘Leica RF’ ethos but all I’m really interested in is getting the best picture in the best way and when it comes to this ‘Live-view’ would be an amazing feature that would turn a great camera into the best. Now I was wondering if this could ever become available even as a firmware update as I would have thought that it could be done as a sort of extension of ‘the shutter lock open’ which is used for sensor cleaning with the sensor staying live and the LCD being on. Then I would be able to get rid of all my Nikon gear and buy more Leica (are you listening out there at Solms) Thoughts please. David -------------------- David Sampson Photography Rewinding a bit to your original question from what I can understand is that you are looking for a solution to secure that your camera shoots in parallel with Horizon. Even though, I have never had issues like this, I do however have bought a very cheap and small plastic spirit level which locks into the hotshoe and secures you with correct horizon inclination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 9, 2009 Share #26 Posted November 9, 2009 The Frankenfinder provides a spirit level. However, I understand from the post that it refers to keystoning. Easy to correct when it is just a tilt in vertical direction, but quite impossible to do so when the camera is off-parallel in two planes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted November 9, 2009 Share #27 Posted November 9, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) That's what I also understood he needs live view to correct "parallel horizontal lines". I believe, aperture can correct a bit there as well, not huge errors but I think it can up to a point. And there is a spirit level using leds too. I never really need to use all that. Jaap, I believe you are right he probably suffers from keystoning rather than tilting (hoizontal tilting). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share #28 Posted November 9, 2009 Hi . Yes I can fix most of it in PP i either use PTLens in LR2 or 'andromeda Lens doc' in CS4 but you are messing with the pixels (and losing them) and it takes time and is a pain to do. I take the point about the ccd sensor heating up and the one about a light loss with the sensor being stopped down.This is a feature that I wouldn't use very often and as it is hardly ever use on D700, but it would still be v useful. -------------- David Sampson Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted November 9, 2009 Share #29 Posted November 9, 2009 David, you suffer from what exactly? Horizontal tilting or keystoning or both? Keystoning usually happens when you take a picture from a higher ground at an angle looking down, or you standing in the ground photographing higher objects in the side of your frame, and objects usually are photographed in the 3rd dimension that is from you towards the horizon. Well you cant solve keystone effect either way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 9, 2009 Share #30 Posted November 9, 2009 Simple keystoning is easy to fix in postprocessing, even in the wet darkroom, but if it is combined with horizontal perspective distortion it is a nightmare, if not impossible to correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 9, 2009 Share #31 Posted November 9, 2009 I think you are confusing the video mode with the still mode. You can take the lens off the camera and watch for yourself. Set it to live view mode, the mirror will go up and the shutter will open. Then press the shutter release, the shutter will close and open again - taking the picture for the designated shutter speed, close, and then open again back to live view. Yes, of course. Apparently you are confusing live view with actually taking a picture – these are entirely different things, except in video mode. During live view, the focal-plane shutter stays open while the exposure time of each of the 30 frames captured each second is controlled by an electronic shutter. With CMOS sensors, each pixel can be accessed directly and at any time, allowing for the implementation of an electronic shutter. There’s the disadvantage of the exposure not being stopped for all pixels at the same time, creating distortions of moving subjects that are typical for this kind of “rolling shutter”, but for the purposes of live view it doesn’t really matter. For actually taking a picture, the camera switches out of live view and goes through the usual cycle of mirror flapping and shutter curtains opening and closing. Whether you had used live view or the optical viewfinder to compose your shot doesn’t change that. The switch from live view (with the mirror up and the focal-plane shutter open) to normal mode is what is causing the blackout you have been observing, but it‘s essential for getting the image quality you are expecting from such a camera. So to return to the original issue: Live view depends on an electronic shutter which requires either an interline transfer CCD or a CMOS sensor. The full-frame transfer CCDs that have so far been used exclusively by Leica are incapable of supporting live view and interline transfer CCDs are not an option either (for the reasons outlined in a previous post), but if Leica should decide to turn to CMOS (and assuming there will be suitable CMOS sensors available on the free market by then), live view will become an option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 9, 2009 Share #32 Posted November 9, 2009 Well Michael, I guess if you define live view that way, it explains it. I am simply talking about the way that it is currently employed for still photos in a practical sense. To that end, I don't know if it is possible to apply a similar approach with larger CCDs or not. And your reply doesn't seem to answer this either. By the way, with the 5DII there is one live view mode where the mirror stays up the entire time. There is another mode where it drops momentarily for AF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 9, 2009 Share #33 Posted November 9, 2009 Well Michael, I guess if you define live view that way, it explains it. I am simply talking about the way that it is currently employed for still photos in a practical sense. But you are not taking still pictures in live view mode, not with your EOS 5D Mark II anyway. For taking pictures, the camera switches out of live view mode temporarily. This is true of all DSLRs supporting live view except Sony’s models – with those, live view and actual picture taking are the responsibilities of two different sensors and thus don’t interfere with each other in any way. You may of course choose to define live view differently and I have no problem with that, only it would have no bearing on the issue at hand, namely whether a M9 successor could offer live view and why the M9 cannot. I have answered both questions and I’m afraid there is nothing I could add to those answers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 9, 2009 Share #34 Posted November 9, 2009 I think this is simply an issue of semantics. I am shooting still photos and using live view for preview. Maybe the M10 will be able to do that and maybe not. I was only trying to state that this is a valuable feature to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted January 17, 2010 Share #35 Posted January 17, 2010 Hi! Here is my opinion about LV: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/111921-things-i-miss-my-m9-4.html#post1193727 PS: As I see - you very often mention 5D II LV. If we talk about Leica future - let's take into account best in class solutions, not warming and increasing noise 5D II. You can have a look at u43 world, which is growing much more faster than 5D II. Era of LV and more perfect EVFs has arrived. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyt Posted January 17, 2010 Share #36 Posted January 17, 2010 I bought a GF1 as a backup for the M9 and I've really enjoyed using live view. I think its a bit less intimidating and a further step towards attracting less attention when taking a picture because you look more like someone using a point&shoot rather than a 'proper' camera like an SLR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 17, 2010 Share #37 Posted January 17, 2010 On a DSLR doesn't live view also come in handy to check whether the optical pentaprism viewfinder is calibrated correctly or not? On a Leica RF couldn't live view be used similarly? On my Nikon D3 I use live view also a lot to run the signal directly into a MacBookPro with up to 200% magnification to make sure right away that (manual) focus is spot on in difficult available light scenarios. I certainly would welcome live view functionality on a Leica RF as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted January 17, 2010 Share #38 Posted January 17, 2010 Ironic at least to me, is that Live View is becoming ubiquitous on dslrs, where it's quite redundant and of very little practical use (especially on 1-series Canons where the viewfinder is 100%), and yet unfeasible on the Leica rangefinder where it would truly be useful when more than approximate framing is desired, and when using longer lenses which have tiny viewfinder frames. why is it useless on the nikon D3, D3s, D3x, D300s....? have you ever used TS lenses on DSLRs? live view is a revelation, just as the histogramme. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor AIS Posted January 17, 2010 Share #39 Posted January 17, 2010 Live view of 45 P.C Nikkor and D3 Nikkor 8mm 2.8 AIS on D3 using live view An example of the live view on the D3 with the Nikkor 800 5.6 IF ED AIS and TC-301 The first sunrise of 2010. Gregory Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted January 17, 2010 Share #40 Posted January 17, 2010 Live View is a complete travesty of the M philosophy. If you want LV than just get an X1. If there ever was going to be LV on an M it would be the first step of the end for the M-finder. A perfect excuse to do without this part of the M. One of, if not the most costly part of the M and hardest to make. I have seen people ask for really silly things on an M. Especially on the German forum one guy even asked for a tilt screen. Simply outrageous. Get a Canon G11 instead please... There are more pressing maters to improve on an M than just making it an expensive compact system. Software is one of them, AWB is another, a proper top LCD info screen and a more forgiving sensor for non-Leica wide angles. Secondary would be better battery life, lower noise at hight ISO, GeoTaging and a integrated Wifi for downloading the contents without opening the bottom or plugging a USB. Asking for Live View absolutely kills the purpose of an M. Many have said here that pictures on an M just look better. Have you ever stopped to think why? It is not only because the lenses are amongst, if not, the best in the world but mainly because unlike a brain-dead SLR you actually have to stop, think and prepare your shots instead of just shooting away. Autofocus, Live View, tilt screens, etc... will simply defeat the M's purpose and sure as hell I will have in this case have no problem in going full Canon or Nikon. Actually, I would pray for a digital R-system.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.