Riley Posted November 28, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 28, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Over the past several years we have seen a number of digital cameras of the rangefinder ilk that have resurfaced within a strong digitised camera lineup. Some of these cameras are unabashed retro designs that hark back to the 35mm era. M8 is an obvious example, the 'almost' rangefinder Digilux 2 is another. Epsons' RD1 is also crafted from the rangefinder type, and even Ricoh are getting into the act with the black GR. While these cameras necessarily differ somewhat from the original 35mm designs in appearance and form, it seems deliberate efforts are made to prize euros from cashed up baby boomers by reverting to classic appearances that appeal to a quality market. These cameras are crafted to demand respect, to increase their value, and to perform well. In fact performance has become a necessary quality, it is not being considered acceptable that aspects of quality suffer. M8 also proves that this new genre operates on the infamous Greenacres "money is no object plan". Arnold Ziffel would be proud. So my question is, out of the rangefinder cameras you have known and loved, which would you like to hold in your hot little hands tomorrow. Would it be another Leica, a Zeis Icon, a Nikon, perhaps a Voigtlander or Contax, a Konika Hexar an Argus a Canon or a FED ? What would you like it to be, and why ? Riley Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10260-could-m8-start-a-rangefinder-revolution/?do=findComment&comment=105782'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 Hi Riley, Take a look here Could M8 Start a Rangefinder Revolution ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted November 28, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 28, 2006 I am perfectly happy with my M8, but I do think it would be a great thing if ZI moved into the vacuum that the end of the production run of the RD1 will create. Postulate a Contax G2 digital as well for those that want automation classic style and the world would be a better place:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frc Posted November 28, 2006 Share #3 Posted November 28, 2006 Retro cameras are not my thing, design on photographic equipment should be egonomic and practical. This does not mean I desire ugly cameras.... The rangefinder concept has, partly because of the lack of good digital cams, become a rare bird. I hope more people are going to use the system and doing so create growth in the rangefinder market. More factories producing means more choice generating lower prices, wouldn't be bad. One more thing on the disign, I'm happy to have a camera that has a disign, look at the amorphous DSLR's offered nowadays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share #4 Posted November 28, 2006 Retro cameras are not my thing, design on photographic equipment should be egonomic and practical. This does not mean I desire ugly cameras....The rangefinder concept has, partly because of the lack of good digital cams, become a rare bird. I hope more people are going to use the system and doing so create growth in the rangefinder market. More factories producing means more choice generating lower prices, wouldn't be bad. One more thing on the disign, I'm happy to have a camera that has a disign, look at the amorphous DSLR's offered nowadays. im of the opinion that, we stepped away from ergonomics when we went digital, in a sense, a part of the retro appeal thing is recovering that functional form. Riley Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10260-could-m8-start-a-rangefinder-revolution/?do=findComment&comment=105857'>More sharing options...
Guest hammertone Posted November 28, 2006 Share #5 Posted November 28, 2006 You have some very nice Nikon rangefinders there! The S2 was my first RF many years ago. I replaced it with a MP (to use modern lenses) which will remain my last RF camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cme4brain Posted November 28, 2006 Share #6 Posted November 28, 2006 I am not a professional photographer, but an advanced amateur. I am waiting to see what Leica does with the M8 before I buy- will they make it a closed system or not? I really like my M6 and would pretty much keep that even if I had many choices. I have had the older Contax from the 1920's and while a great camera, I prefer my Leica! I do appreciate rangefinders, even film ones, as it keeps me in touch with photography more than just pushing a button after selecting an option off an LCD panel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morten Grathe Posted November 28, 2006 Share #7 Posted November 28, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think that the all the modern features are what sells, and that the rangefinders will remain niche-cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share #8 Posted November 28, 2006 sadly they are not mine hammertone the S2 was the first professional nikon, but the camera pictured is the Nikon SP 2005, yes thats last year. of which only 2,500 were produced to be given away via lottery. the remains were only sold in Japan for about US$5,950 Riley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicabasar Posted November 28, 2006 Share #9 Posted November 28, 2006 Evolution from 18x24 to FourThirds Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10260-could-m8-start-a-rangefinder-revolution/?do=findComment&comment=105892'>More sharing options...
ckthual Posted November 28, 2006 Share #10 Posted November 28, 2006 Well I loved my good old Konica Hexar ! :-) I would love to see a digital version of it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivek Iyer Posted November 28, 2006 Share #11 Posted November 28, 2006 I expect a Zeiss-Ikon at a reasonable price. R-D1(s) is a trailblazer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmr Posted November 28, 2006 Share #12 Posted November 28, 2006 Boris/Leicabasar: What do we have here? Digilux 3 (4Thirds) with the R lens 100 APO Macro? I must have been too busy reading about M8, figuring out how I'm going to get IR cut filters, will my M8 have issues when it arrives and missed the possibility of mounting R lens to the D-3 with an adaptor. Wow... Is it for real and where can we find the adaptor? Alternative to the DMR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyField Posted November 28, 2006 Share #13 Posted November 28, 2006 I cannot see how a revolution could be started by the M8 - except as a Leica lover new acquisition. If you wish to use the M8 as a serious professional camera to be used in the same general area that the M2, M3, M4, M5, M6 and M7 would be used, improvements must be made before it is truly viable. A serious part of the problem is the 1.33 crop sensor which makes the camera unusable with high speed wide angle lenses - for example, shooting a black-tie event where an M6 with 35mm F1.4 is virtually the ideal choice. If Leica (or other) produced a 24mm F1.4 the problem would be dramatically reduced. However, the present value of an unaviailable future lens is zero to the photographer. I am finding that the Canon 5D with 35mm F1.4 is replacing my use of the Leica M series. In a way, I think the M8 is causing a devolution of the rangefinder because it is not (IMO) matching expectations of the Leica system. Of course, the problems vanish if you choice was for 50mm and longer and the Leica M8 is still viable. The additional practical issue is the cost of acquistion. If you already have a well developed Leica system with two or more bodies and a good range of high speed lenses, the probable required acquisitions are two M8 bodies, the 75 mm F1.4, the yet unavailable 24mm F1.4 and probably the unspeculated 21mm F2.0. This would make the M8 system functional on par with the traditional M-film cameras. The cost of the bodies and 75 mm lens are within reach - however the unavailable lenses are rather much of a show stopper. The minor problem of the external IR filter is, none the less, still a problem with backlighting (assuming that the IR filter works like a UV when it comes to flare) - just like the migration from the excellent viewfinder on the M3 to the M2/4 viewfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils-advocate Posted November 28, 2006 Share #14 Posted November 28, 2006 Well I loved my good old Konica Hexar ! :-)I would love to see a digital version of it... Ahmen to that! I loved the original black (silent) Hexar -- the 35mm f2 was second-to-none. A digital version would be amazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
salvatore Posted November 28, 2006 Share #15 Posted November 28, 2006 Ahmen to that! I loved the original black (silent) Hexar -- the 35mm f2 was second-to-none. A digital version would be amazing. konica left the camera business, so you could call sony to make a new Sony Hexar D... with antishake, antidust, and video mode Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 28, 2006 Share #16 Posted November 28, 2006 ... please find out what revolution means before you use the word, in this case it is a inapproprite term and contextually like a fish flapping on a fishmongers floor....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted November 28, 2006 Share #17 Posted November 28, 2006 Well it could!!! With all the bad press the M8 was getting it might feel pretty disenchanted with the system and inclined start something. It isnt as far off as you might imagine. It could happen here. Look at Fiji, look at the Solomons. I am not saying its right...but... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdemas Posted November 28, 2006 Share #18 Posted November 28, 2006 I second the motion on the Digital Contax G. That would have been something else (they had one ready to go when the plug was pulled, I understand). I have some old and new Nikon rangefinders (SP and S3 2000) in black and they are truly stunning cameras as well. I suppose if I could have one old camera it would be a black nikon SP, which were very rare. Kent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted November 29, 2006 Author Share #19 Posted November 29, 2006 Tony I dont know that the ills of M8 necessarily apply to the notion that all rangefinder cameras therefore have the hex on them. Nor is it condusive to the idea that a rangefinder would be of no use in professionsl circles. Certainly people are working on the wide lens issues and some fruit will come of that. As to the crop factor thats so trivial as to be fantasy land, being that most point and shoots could qualify as poorer than intended quality rangfinders with fixed zooms. Granted some are better than others. Rangefinders were of a number of forms of construction, being diecast metal, press metal, and plastic. With some of the plastic creations around these days such as Ricoh GR, a fairly bullet proof camera could be put together that would utilise many injection moulded components. But its hard to get the weighty feeling of solidity that metal provides out of your mind. Die hard rangefinder devotees would prefer interchangeable lenses and optical finders of course. But the problem for manufacturers is in making the decision to build new lenses or to utilise existing designs. And the problem with existing designs comes down to the cost factor of great lenses, or settling for less. The bayonet mount makes it difficult to hold more than one idea of what is right. Viewfinders too are a contentious design point, on the one hand a good optical finder is a logical choice and has sharper focussing aids. But the increasingly more common EVF has a lot going for it provided the image quality is improved. An EVF can carry all the shooting information such as exposure settings and operational capacities. It can be gained up in low light and always provides a WYSIWYG image more compatible with popular zooms. Riley Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10260-could-m8-start-a-rangefinder-revolution/?do=findComment&comment=106486'>More sharing options...
grober Posted November 29, 2006 Share #20 Posted November 29, 2006 Riley, WHAT AN ABSOLUTELY DELICIOUS PHOTO OF THAT BEAUTIFUL NIKON SP! I agree with your point 1000 percent. I resolutely held back from adopting digital (until the M8) just because of the poor feel and miserable ergonomics of ALL prior, professional-grade digi-cams. The M8, despite its significant teething problems, still promises much. -g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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