amod Posted October 27, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 27, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, I recently thought of graduating from a Leica D-Lux-4 to a M8/ 8.2 (M9 being out of my budget) However, when I went to my local Leica dealer I was told that the M8/8.2 are out of stock as Leica has stopped manufacturing them. Is this true? If so, can anyone advice me as to what would be a reasonable cost for a second hand M8/8.2 and what is the serial number above which I should look for? Your advice on this matter is highly appreciated. Regards, Amod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Hi amod, Take a look here Is it true that Leica has stopped making M8 & M8.2?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lars_bergquist Posted October 27, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 27, 2009 Yes. As stated in the current issue of LFI. The old man from Out There Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted October 27, 2009 Share #3 Posted October 27, 2009 Although the camera isn't manufactured anymore, there still should be enough dealers who have some in stock - and are probably more than happy to sell it. I'd suggest looking around a bit. You'll probably be able to negotiate a bit. (If you want a new one with guarantee, that is. Of course, if you can get a good used one, you can save even more money.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_clarke Posted October 27, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 27, 2009 I'm not on commission but I've always had good service from Ffordes in the UK. Take a look at their site - they have new M8.2 and second hand M8s and M8.2s for sale. It will give you an idea of prices. Best wishes in your quest, Graeme Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted October 27, 2009 Share #5 Posted October 27, 2009 ...when I went to my local Leica dealer I was told that the M8/8.2 are out of stock as Leica has stopped manufacturing them. ...you say it like it's a bad thing... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted October 27, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 27, 2009 For whatever it's worth, I spent several hours at the Leica booth at the recent Photo Expo in New York. I got most of my questions answered, but for a few small ones that I forgot to ask. During the discussions, I got to asking about firmware updates, and when I mentioned that my M8.2 might no longer be supported, the Leica guys assured me that while the M8 is discontinued, the M8.2 is still a "current" model. I was surprised to hear this, but obviously pleased with the information. As to where to buy a Leica in the USA, normally I'd first go to B&H Photo in NYC, but I was very happy with the service I received from Roberts Imaging, which is where I got my M8.2. B&H is pretty well known; Roberts Imaging is smaller and more personal. The person who helped me was Nick Henry [nhenry@robertsimaging.com], but you can also contact the boss, Jody, at jgrober@robertsimaging.com. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelos Viskadourakis Posted October 27, 2009 Share #7 Posted October 27, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...you say it like it's a bad thing... Regards, Bill Of course for many is not bad is a wrong thing ,some respect to others opinions and wishes is not harmful:eek: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted October 27, 2009 Share #8 Posted October 27, 2009 During the discussions, I got to asking about firmware updates, and when I mentioned that my M8.2 might no longer be supported, the Leica guys assured me that while the M8 is discontinued, the M8.2 is still a "current" model. I was surprised to hear this, but obviously pleased with the information. Isn't that a curious statement for someone from Leica to make? The firmware and most of the parts are identical, no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarker13 Posted October 27, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 27, 2009 Leica really is a curious company. We are now into their third version of the digital rangefinder - each one costing substantially more than the one before. That alone is no big deal. Until you factor in the discontinuation of the earlier models. Does anyone else do this in the camera world? Certainly not Nikon, Canon or Pentax. I mean, sure they're introducing new models all the time. But they generally keep their prices steady - both for the current pro-model and the current consumer model. It's much like the world of computers, where you always know you can get the average computer (whatever the current specs might be) for roughly the same amount of money - regardless of when you buy it. I wonder if Leica will ever get to the point where it can handle two distinct lines of its digital rangefinder - one cropped and one full frame. Maybe we are already there and the M8.3 is just around the corner. I certainly hope so, for the company's sake. A lot of us don't mind buying used cameras. But there are certainly a lot of people out there who will only buy new. It's not like $4,500 was cheap for the orginal M8, but that sounds like an absolute bargain now, compared to the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 27, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 27, 2009 I doubt the price increases are a continuing trend. The economy caused the M8.2 price increase, most likely, and the M9 is simply more complex and the components pricier. I suspect that the M10 will cost about the same as the M9, give or take a little inflation or economic factors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarker13 Posted October 27, 2009 Share #11 Posted October 27, 2009 Sounds reasonable. For those who need/want it, I'm thrilled they are offering the full-frame model. I just hope they don't totally abandon the cropped sensor models - if it's a way to offer a lower-priced alternative. Similarly, I love that Nikon offers the D3 for those who want full-frame. But my D300 does pretty much everything I need it to do for one third the price. No I don't know if Leica will ever be able to offer a second line that's a third the price of its top-line camera. But something that costs substantially less would go a long way toward drawing in new customers - something the company could really use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 27, 2009 Share #12 Posted October 27, 2009 I am not sure that they need a current M8 to accomplish that, especially since the M8 has a mixed reputation. They have sold enough of them that the used market might achieve the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted October 28, 2009 Share #13 Posted October 28, 2009 I am not sure that they need a current M8 to accomplish that, especially since the M8 has a mixed reputation. They have sold enough of them that the used market might achieve the same. The first D2 series cameras from Nikon had a terrible reputation, but Nikon fixed everything for anyone who owned one. Then they came out with the "x" version with more resolution, but they still kept the lower-res version available, at a lower price. As I see it, Leica also needs a lower-priced version of their DRF camera, just as Nikon did. Giving people a choice is always a good idea. As to the "mixed reputation", Leica's current reputation with the M8 cameras is excellent - they've proved beyond a doubt that they support their customers. Just about every other manufacturer offers models that fit different price ranges; if possible, this would be good for Leica as well, IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 28, 2009 Share #14 Posted October 28, 2009 I don't agree. Yes, the M8 is a fantastic camera, but there is any number of people who wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole for various reasons. I don't think it necessarily helps Leica to keep such a camera in their lineup. Maybe when the M10 comes out, the M9 could serve that purpose. The other thing is that the cost of manufacturing the M8 is not only very similar to the M9, since only the sensor is different in price, but you also have to subtract the number of M8s produced from the number of M9s that Leica can produce, and since they currently have their hands full producing enough M9s, this makes it even less sensible to continue manufacturing the M8. Yes, Leica could possibly benefit from a current cheaper digital rangefinder than the M9, but I don't think the M8 is the camera to do this. They need to come out with a true budget model, one which is easier to manufacture, and truly cheaper to sell. The thing is that this was never Leica's business model, and I doubt that they will start now. The used market for film Ms, the R-D1 and the M8 will serve as an entry point to the M9, in addition to the still unsold M8.2s out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted October 28, 2009 Share #15 Posted October 28, 2009 I just hope they don't totally abandon the cropped sensor models - if it's a way to offer a lower-priced alternative. Similarly, I love that Nikon offers the D3 for those who want full-frame. But my D300 does pretty much everything I need it to do for one third the price. . Unlike Canon, Nikon and Sony, Leica never offered any 1,33X lenses. Even the WATE's, 18, 21 and 24 finders are useable on both digital cameras. AFAIK, other than the UV/IR filters , there is no M8's lens or accessory than cannot be used on the M9. Even the batteries are compatible. And the price of both camera the M8 and M9, in Euro only I agree, were/are in the same league. Expensive. In its own way, one can say that Leica did a pretty good job against obsolescence for all the M users. Even more so for M8 users thanks to the upgrade program. And it also helped new users entering in the M system. I don't see many companies offering the retrofit of the coding on their old lenses. Or asking Kodak to design a sensor making possible to use, with great results on the M8 and M9, almost all the lenses made since 1954 (or even some older with an adapter). Lately, they even made life easier for their clients (old and new) using the lenses made by their competitors ?!?! I'm not sure that Canon or Nikon, even today, are offering the same IQ on the whole field for their older wide-angle lenses on their FF sensors. It is really to bad is was not possible to save the R system in the same way. As I see it, Leica also needs a lower-priced version of their DRF camera, just as Nikon did. Giving people a choice is always a good idea. Maybe in their mind, the X1 will be that lower-priced alternative. And because it has a fixed lens, nobody will complain later if they decide to change the format, or stop the X serie. Lucien Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted October 28, 2009 Share #16 Posted October 28, 2009 Of course for many is not bad is a wrong thing ,some respect to others opinions and wishes is not harmful:eek: ...joke... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted October 28, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 28, 2009 Unlike Canon, Nikon and Sony, Leica never offered any 1,33X lenses. Even the WATE's, 18, 21 and 24 finders are useable on both digital cameras. AFAIK, other than the UV/IR filters , there is no M8's lens or accessory than cannot be used on the M9. Even the batteries are compatible. And the price of both camera the M8 and M9, in Euro only I agree, were/are in the same league. Expensive. In its own way, one can say that Leica did a pretty good job against obsolescence for all the M users. Even more so for M8 users thanks to the upgrade program. And it also helped new users entering in the M system. I don't see many companies offering the retrofit of the coding on their old lenses. Or asking Kodak to design a sensor making possible to use, with great results on the M8 and M9, almost all the lenses made since 1954 (or even some older with an adapter). Lately, they even made life easier for their clients (old and new) using the lenses made by their competitors ?!?! I'm not sure that Canon or Nikon, even today, are offering the same IQ on the whole field for their older wide-angle lenses on their FF sensors. It is really to bad is was not possible to save the R system in the same way. Maybe in their mind, the X1 will be that lower-priced alternative. And because it has a fixed lens, nobody will complain later if they decide to change the format, or stop the X serie. Lucien - As if this was a good thing. Nikon did offer DX lenses for heir 1.5 crop factor DX sensor. THAT was a good thing. PLUS ALL Nikon F mount lenses, past and present, are usable on ALL Nikon DSLRs. - You must be kidding. To consider a new camera «a finished camera» after only three years, and to stop producing it is not what I would call «good job against obsolescence.» Quite the contray. - I don't see many companies making it MANDATORY to have coding to get decent IQ. - AFAIK, Nikon lenses in F mount have always been perfectly usable on any Nikon DSLR, regardless of the sensor. - Er... Sigma, Tamron, Zeiss and al have been making great lenses for the Nikon F mount for a long time, without any hindrance from Nikon. - You might want to reconsider this affirmation after maybe trying an older Nikon 28/2 AI on a D700. Or a 20/2.8 AI. Or... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted October 28, 2009 Share #18 Posted October 28, 2009 - You must be kidding. To consider a new camera «a finished camera» after only three years, and to stop producing it is not what I would call «good job against obsolescence.» Quite the contray. Sure. I see that those who started with the M8 are not happy, and maybe that they don't care about FF. But you should see that those who started with a classic M (M3 - M7) were maybe not that happy with the M8. And the same small production line could not produce both. AFAIK they don't have factories in Thailand. And I still think that Leica did a pretty good job under the circumstance. Regarding the "finished camera" as you say, I'm sure that there are enough new M8 and M8.2 in stock to fulfill the demand for the next years and there will be plenty second-hand soon. Not mine, because I will keep it as a backup. It never let me down and it is an excellent camera. But I prefer the M9. Lucien Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted October 28, 2009 Share #19 Posted October 28, 2009 Unlike Canon, Nikon and Sony, Leica never offered any 1,33X lenses. Even the WATE's, 18, 21 and 24 finders are useable on both digital cameras. - As if this was a good thing. That was not my point. It only shows that Leica never committed itself to the 1,33 x format, but to the M system. The FF was their goal. It was very clear from the beginning. Lucien Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarker13 Posted October 29, 2009 Share #20 Posted October 29, 2009 The lack of diverse offerings really speaks to the general weakness of Leica as a company. But obviously, that's nothing new. The company's financial woes are there for everyone to see in its financial filings. I don't really care what the company's "budget" (hard to call a $2,000-$3000 camera "budget") model is called. M8.3, M10, M-whatever. But they need some way to keep reaching new users. I just don't buy the idea that used M8s are going to do it - especially if those cameras don't age well. If those things start falling apart 4-5 years after release, that's just going to complicate things even more for Leica. This isn't like the days of good ol' mechanical rangefinders, when a 10-year old camera was essentially just as good as a new one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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