BerndReini Posted October 24, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 24, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) This is very freeing. This is a full frame picture, no crop, with the glaring sun close to the edge of frame. Most of you know what this would have looked like with an IR filter on the lens. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/101294-the-beauty-of-shooting-without-filters/?do=findComment&comment=1087515'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Hi BerndReini, Take a look here The beauty of shooting without filters.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Alnitak Posted October 24, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 24, 2009 Bernd, I see you are in LA. Did you get the M9 locally? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted October 24, 2009 Yes, I was third on the list for a black one with Tony at Popflash. I know the list is very long. I think there are over 60 orders just from popflash, probably at least as many from Samy's and they are the two big guns in LA. I just got mine a little over a week ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted October 24, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 24, 2009 I am first on my list, but that is in Stockholm, Sweden, and I will be lucky indeed to have mine this year I presume. Not very high on the totem pole ... The old man from the Age of the M3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishblimp Posted October 24, 2009 Share #5 Posted October 24, 2009 I'm going to go out on a limb here: WHAT wouldve happened if you had a filter on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted October 24, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 24, 2009 I am first on my list, but that is in Stockholm, Sweden, and I will be lucky indeed to have mine this year I presume. Not very high on the totem pole ... The old man from the Age of the M3 Ah, Lars, but you have all those lovely Swedish ladies to enjoy, in return! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted October 24, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm going to go out on a limb here: WHAT wouldve happened if you had a filter on? Green and purple flare would have built all around the sun, the shadows would be completely washed out, and about two to three stops lost (the lower part of the histogram would look flat). Then you have to crush the blacks to get any kind of contrast back. I use a regular UV filter on the M9 occasionally for protection (in light drizzle etc.) and a regular UV filter flares a lot less than the UV/IR filters. It also gives you a lot less of those green and purple ghosting reflections. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EarlBurrellPhoto Posted October 24, 2009 Share #8 Posted October 24, 2009 Green and purple flare would have built all around the sun, the shadows would be completely washed out, and about two to three stops lost (the lower part of the histogram would look flat). Then you have to crush the blacks to get any kind of contrast back I had such issues initially, when I was using 486 and Leica IR filters. A colleague pointed me toward the Heliopan range of IR filters and since switching over I haven't had flare issues. I recall examining the three brands side-by-side and being blown away by the obvious lack of reflection upon the Heliopan's surface. No idea why the 486 isn't as well coated, as B+W make a ripping good line of multicoated filters otherwise. The Leica filters I understand, as none of their house brand are multicoated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted October 24, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 24, 2009 Green and purple flare would have built all around the sun, the shadows would be completely washed out, and about two to three stops lost (the lower part of the histogram would look flat). Then you have to crush the blacks to get any kind of contrast back. You seem to have a hell of a downer on the M8 Bernd, and I'm afraid to say I'm tiring of hearing it. I don't think the image would be nearly as bad as you seem to believe with an M8. "About two to three stops lost" I'm calling total BS on this. Seriously. Show me the comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 24, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 24, 2009 I think that more realistically, there would have been white spots around the edge where the lettering of the lens was reflected, and perhaps a glare from the sun somewhere, but there shouldn't be any contrast or black loss, unless your filter is dirty or of poor quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrikft Posted October 24, 2009 Share #11 Posted October 24, 2009 Some people bash the M8, others praise it like the second coming and bash the M9 instead. Some like the mother.. others? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelfocus Posted October 24, 2009 Share #12 Posted October 24, 2009 Green and purple flare would have built all around the sun, the shadows would be completely washed out Have a look this one for flare with IR Cut filter installed (bit extreme I know and I have to admit I was kind of asking for it) :-) flare on Flickr - Photo Sharing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 24, 2009 Share #13 Posted October 24, 2009 Was this a shot taken to prove your point (and why no comparison shot with a filter?). I venture to suggest that you wouldn't have bothered with this image in the 'real world' so the point is of little value IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted October 24, 2009 To answer plasticman's comment. I am not talking about dynamic range of a sensor here, I am talking about veiling flare that washes out the shadows, and in order to bring a real black back into the picture, you have to clip all the shadows. If you go back in the forum history, you will see that I used to kick and scream about having to use filters in front of the lens ever since I got the M8. I dealt with it and fine, yet I really welcome the improvement. I feel like you are being to defensive and therefore misunderstood the post. As far as comparisons are concerned: I have not had much time and have been using it to go out and get used to the M9 rather than conducting comparison tests. I do however have to put the camera through its paces when it doesn't count, so I know what to rely on later. I just shot some pictures with Kim Kardashian surrounded by movie lights and believe me, these tests are very important. I choose to share results with people that want to know about the M9, not to put down the M8 or its users. Three of my colleagues never bought an M8 but stuck with their Epson RDs and they don't have any problems with my excitement about the new camera. I crossed the street, saw the sun, took the picture. Shoot me for posting it on the M9 forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted October 24, 2009 Tony, I love that picture. Flare well applied. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbelyaev Posted October 24, 2009 Share #16 Posted October 24, 2009 M8. Summarit 50/2.5. IR cut filter. No flare. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/101294-the-beauty-of-shooting-without-filters/?do=findComment&comment=1088454'>More sharing options...
erl Posted October 25, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 25, 2009 I think everyone acknowledges that filters can cause flare, relections, whatever, and I have had my share of them with IR filters on the M8. I am pleased to be free of that aspect of filters with my M9 now, but I have always maintained that an equally big flare problem can be caused by the pathetic little 'sun shades' that accompany Leica lenses. They are soo ineffectual when it comes to shielding the lens from extraneous light that I find it hard to believe that the same company that makes what is arguably the world's best lenses allows the image quality to be soo easily degraded in such an unfortunate way. I believe it is even more critical for RF cameras to have effective lens hoods that SLR's because when the flare occurs, you mostly don't see it in the RF and consequently take no avoiding action. At least with SLR's you have a fair chance of seeing stray light in the VF before exposure. Of course I am the first one to appreciate the wonderful compactness of Leica lenses with their built in hoods but it definitely has the trade off with image quality. Probably I will acquire some UV filters for 'occasional' protection in the unfriendly environments that I seem to inhabit. No solution is perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted October 25, 2009 See I learned something again by posting here. I have indeed been using the BW486 and Leica filters all this time. Are ghosting reflections (from street lamps etc. at night) also reduced with the Heliopan filters? Any experiences? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted October 25, 2009 Share #19 Posted October 25, 2009 I'm with Bernd on this one, though I think he's exaggerating the impact of the filters. I've consistently argued here that the IR filters were a pain the arse if, like me, you often like to shoot into the sun. Not always a problem but I've got a number of shots displaying filter induced flarey stuff that I'd rather wasn't there. There's also the issue of shooting in low light containing small bright light sources - the IR filters more often than not introduce little reflective green globs into the shot. Not needing the IR filters is one of the real advantages that the M9 does have, in normal use, over the M8 (the other is being able to use lenses uncropped). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted October 25, 2009 Share #20 Posted October 25, 2009 Not owning an M9,but my dealer here in Germany mentioned that Leica do still reccommend using the IR Cut filters even with the M9...Is this then false advice? or is there still a slight IR issue? Still using he M8.2 myself occasionally and am not in the market for the M9....just curious. regards Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.