Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 27, 2006 Share #101 Posted November 27, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm trying to understand some of those sharpening tools . Yes a believe it or not blue light special. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 27, 2006 Posted November 27, 2006 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here M8 Detail,Dynamic Range and Color . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ustein Posted November 27, 2006 Share #102 Posted November 27, 2006 >Uwe--I will do that. Does LightZone support the M8 yet?!! I couldn't get it to work yet... It works for me for some time and I don't think is is my beta version only. Uwe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted November 28, 2006 Share #103 Posted November 28, 2006 IMO, the B&W shot looks very mathematically digital to me, not at all like film grain... especially noticeable in the shadow areas of the bowl. Guy, how do you feel about the skin tones and texture in your photos? IMO, those also look "overly digital". While one medium shouldn't try to emulate the other, but instead stand on their own merits, the closest thing I've come to the look of film is shooting a Leaf Aptus 75 at ISO 800 and pushing that to the equivalent of ISO 1600+. It looked okay, but still no cigar. Here's one done like that using a Zeiss 150/2.8FE on a Mamiya AFDII and the Aptus back. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10073-m8-detaildynamic-range-and-color/?do=findComment&comment=105448'>More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 28, 2006 Share #104 Posted November 28, 2006 Marc the tonal range seems to be there the more important issue is the detail . There is a lot of detail there and for portraits i have turn off my base sharpening in C1 it looks like. I am still playing around with this one. Even the DMR i have been known to do a .5 guassian blur just to get things smooth. Sharpness can kill also Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ross Posted November 28, 2006 Share #105 Posted November 28, 2006 IMO, the B&W shot looks very mathematically digital to me, not at all like film grain... especially noticeable in the shadow areas of the bowl. While one medium shouldn't try to emulate the other, but instead stand on their own merits, the closest thing I've come to the look of film is shooting a Leaf Aptus 75 at ISO 800 and pushing that to the equivalent of ISO 1600+. It looked okay, but still no cigar. Here's one done like that using a Zeiss 150/2.8FE on a Mamiya AFDII and the Aptus back. What I have noticed is that digital noise is much too uniform across the tonal scale to be confused or likened to grain, as we expect it to appear. Applying NR in the shadows with a tone mask might edge the images closer to what we have come to expect from grainy film. Adding noise to look like grain is also best done proportionally across the tonal scale to mimic the way grain structure in a negative is layed down. The other problem is that shooting digital is more like shooting Scala (reversal) than negative film. I'm not sure these comments would apply to adding noise to "bulk up" an uprezzed color image as David described. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted November 28, 2006 Share #106 Posted November 28, 2006 Like David, I shoot DNG + JPEG fine; I hadn't bothered until now to look at the difference between the out-of-camera JPEG (which you see here) and the C1-processed DNG, but I just took a look, and there's a BIG difference. The tonality of the TIFF file converted to monochrome is VERY different from that of the JPEG produced by the camera. Very interesting.... By the way, Jamie, I'm "Bob" :-) Bob--eep. Sorry! Ok, this is definitely on my list of things to look at... once I actually get some work done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted November 28, 2006 Share #107 Posted November 28, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Like David, I shoot DNG + JPEG fine; I hadn't bothered until now to look at the difference between the out-of-camera JPEG (which you see here) and the C1-processed DNG, but I just took a look, and there's a BIG difference. The tonality of the TIFF file converted to monochrome is VERY different from that of the JPEG produced by the camera. Very interesting.... By the way, Jamie, I'm "Bob" :-) Bob--eep. Sorry! Ok, this is definitely on my list of things to look at... once I actually get some work done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 28, 2006 Share #108 Posted November 28, 2006 Playing around with Raw developer , nice program . Lot's of controls and pretty nice B&W stuff Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10073-m8-detaildynamic-range-and-color/?do=findComment&comment=105847'>More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 28, 2006 Share #109 Posted November 28, 2006 One more this is fun Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10073-m8-detaildynamic-range-and-color/?do=findComment&comment=105859'>More sharing options...
kevin m Posted November 28, 2006 Share #110 Posted November 28, 2006 I'm not a regular here, but this needs to be said: The M8 files displayed here don't look a bit like film. They appear subtly better than those of other DSLR's, but the larger commonality with digital capture in general remains. If you like that look, great; if your clients demand it, fine. But it still doesn't look like film. So stop it, please. I've attached a humble family snapshot captured with a rangefinder camera loaded with Fuji Pro 400 to remind you what film looks like, in case you've forgotten. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10073-m8-detaildynamic-range-and-color/?do=findComment&comment=105860'>More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 28, 2006 Share #111 Posted November 28, 2006 Kevin nice shot but you HAVE to admit that is mostly the soft light coming in also. Most of what i am showing is the harshest light around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin m Posted November 28, 2006 Share #112 Posted November 28, 2006 Agreed, Guy, light plays a factor. Here's a snapshot taken in bright light on BW400CN. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10073-m8-detaildynamic-range-and-color/?do=findComment&comment=105871'>More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted November 28, 2006 Share #113 Posted November 28, 2006 Agreed, Guy, light plays a factor. Here's a snapshot taken in bright light on BW400CN. It actually looks an awful lot like snapshots taken on a sunny day with the M8, processed in C1 with the JFI yellow filter BW profile. I had thought the difference would be much greater. BTW--the original comment about "film" was that the high ISO JPEGs of the M8 have a grain structure not unlike film. Not that the M8 looked the same as film. Having said that, it has a DR and tonality that does begin to mimic print film (the usual comparison with digital is chrome). This is true; you have to shoot the camera to see it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin m Posted November 28, 2006 Share #114 Posted November 28, 2006 ...you have to shoot the camera to see it. Jamie, why? Why can't an image be posted online that demonstrates how close to film the M8 is? Web limitations are a level playing field, aren't they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted November 28, 2006 Share #115 Posted November 28, 2006 I'm siding with Kevin on this one. Harsh lighting or not - the M8 is still a digital camera. Digital files tend to have noise, much like a video camera with the gain increased. The examples David posted do exhibit a very interesting structure. What I'd like to see is the M8 at work on a cool,damp London or New York evening with a Noctilux - shot in B&W. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 28, 2006 Share #116 Posted November 28, 2006 Kevin i think we can do a lot digitally to get a certain look that we are after also. But I'm not one of those digital is better than film guys , the both have there look and advantages. For me film just is not a option anymore for business reasons but i still like looking at it. Also it has been so long since I shot it, i forget some of it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 28, 2006 Share #117 Posted November 28, 2006 I'm siding with Kevin on this one. Harsh lighting or not - the M8 is still a digital camera. Digital files tend to have noise, much like a video camera with the gain increased. The examples David posted do exhibit a very interesting structure. What I'd like to see is the M8 at work on a cool,damp London or New York evening with a Noctilux - shot in B&W. Dan get me out this bright freaking sun and i'm there. Seriously can't wait to get to some ugly overcast misty weather to shoot this. For me the sun is a battle here, I love that dreamy look but hard to do in these conditions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted November 28, 2006 Share #118 Posted November 28, 2006 I guess most friends here have already shot with digital long enough to forget what film could really look like ... with today's technology, if you know how to get a proper scan and set up the right workflow in PS, the difference between film and digital can be minimal within a reasonable scope. Neither film, nor digital, is superior to the other ... as many has stated, it's all about a certain look and your taste. With something good enough to start with, this is all not that hard to achieve ... Here's one of my quick snap ... now tell me what it was with. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10073-m8-detaildynamic-range-and-color/?do=findComment&comment=105930'>More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted November 28, 2006 Share #119 Posted November 28, 2006 Jamie, why? Why can't an image be posted online that demonstrates how close to film the M8 is? Web limitations are a level playing field, aren't they? Kevin, you're right... but it takes some time to do this, and to really see the files you have to get right in there and print them. I guess I'm saying snapshots on the web look a lot like snapshots on the Web . So with that caveat... So here's an M8 snapshot taken on a very sunny day and converted as I mentioned above. Actually, and folks need to understand this--this is 3 different converts from C1 of the same shot and merged in PS. Each of those conversions has a characteristic film curve added to the toe and shoulder of the response, adjusted for shadows, mids, or highlights. One for the sky and sunlight; two for the midtones, and one for the shadows. I could do more Hard to see from a tiny shot, but this looks a lot like low-contrast BW film to my eyes (and I spent a long time in the BW darkroom!). We could get a number of other film looks by processing shadows and highlights differently, too. I also did this really quickly--if I was really doing this for print I'd be a lot more careful with the merge--and the grain, which you can't really see here. Total time less than 10 mins from DNG to this... My main point here is that the M8 is one of the few cameras it's worth doing three converts of the same file, on a sunny day. Most don't hold this much detail; we really are talking 7-8 stops of exposure detail with no noise, and to me that's incredible. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10073-m8-detaildynamic-range-and-color/?do=findComment&comment=105945'>More sharing options...
gumshoecamus Posted November 28, 2006 Share #120 Posted November 28, 2006 I'm siding with Kevin on this one. Harsh lighting or not - the M8 is still a digital camera. Digital files tend to have noise, much like a video camera with the gain increased. The examples David posted do exhibit a very interesting structure. What I'd like to see is the M8 at work on a cool,damp London or New York evening with a Noctilux - shot in B&W. dan -- when my m8 arrives (or is that 'if'?) I will oblige. it is certainly damp here in london, and more than 'cool' ! adve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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