Theodor Heinrichsohn Posted October 15, 2009 Share #41 Posted October 15, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) (snipped) I like to use the M8 with a Visoflex, and would like to do the same with a M9, if I had one. Sometimes the lever of the Viso triggers the shutter before the mirror of the Viso is removed. Same effect as with the lens cap: (snipped) I tried out a Visoflex III and a Visoflex IIa in the position where the mirror rises slowly and there was no blackout due to the exposure being made before the mirror is up. The length the screw that contacts the button on the camera can be adjusted to avoid making an exposure before the mirror is up. Teddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Hi Theodor Heinrichsohn, Take a look here more M9 issues. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ModernMan Posted October 15, 2009 Share #42 Posted October 15, 2009 Well Moderman, you seem to have taken offense at what was intended to be no more than a bit of impatience on my part with what (to me) seems to be ad nauseum comparisons of how nikon and canon are better than Leica and so on. ... If you have been personally offended, I apologize for that. It was not the intention to be personal in my comments, however I accept that you have been. First, erl, lets bury the hatchet. I think I used more invective than necessary, and I offer my appologies. I think I understand your "impatience on my part with what (to me) seems to be ad nauseum comparisons of how nikon and canon are better than Leica and so on. Thread after thread.". Reciprocally, I'm surprised at how a critial comment about the M9 can draw an suggestion that perhaps the commenter would be happier with canon or nikon. We're all here beccase we have a predilection for Leica cameras and lenses. I'm sure we both agree that nikon or canon are no substitute for Leica, and in fact are not competitors to Leica. Different product categories: DSLR vs. rangefinder, etc. Many of us own both. However, canon and nikon have put some products in the market which illustrate what's possible, some of which would beneficially inform Leica product design -- and I'm fine with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted October 15, 2009 Share #43 Posted October 15, 2009 As far as my serious remarks go regarding 'user error'. That is a fact. Sorry if you can't see it, but any bug, error, whatever, in the camera, which I did acknowledge the possibility of, was precipitated by the user. In my book, that is the cause of the problem. The consequence that I suspect you may be referring to may be the 'bug'. I don't know so I won't argue it. "User error" and/or "bug"? First, I'll agree turning the camera off during a long exposure is a "use case" which the camera was aparently not designed for. One can probably argue both side of the issue as to whether it is "user error" or not. It is certainly a user error to shoot with the lens cap on, but to the firmware thats just shooting with very low light -- not an error of any sort. The firmware knows nothing of your lens cap error, only that the exposure must be long since there's little light. In any case, a user error should not result in a camera freeze. It should be handled gracefully. One could construe that its a user error to push two or three buttons simultaneously, but we sure don't expect the camera to freeze if we do. (No I'm not trying restart the "recessed buttons like on the 5DII discussion".) So, from a software (firmware) design perspective: (1) a use case was not considered (turn off during exposure), and (2) there is bug which is that the unconsidered use case results in a freeze. A principle which applies here is that a "freeze" is never acceptable. All potential user inputs and configuration of settings and controls must be handled by the software. An error message, or even doing nothing is ok -- a freeze is not. No firmware is bug free. Look at the list of "corrections" in the firmware updates to Canons and Nikons. Its not reasonable to expect Leica firmware to be bug free, but we as a community can help improve it by reporting reproducable bugs to Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 15, 2009 Share #44 Posted October 15, 2009 ModernMan, buried hatchet agreed upon, the deeper the better. Not a useful instrument. In reality I think we agree, if in different words, on the concept of 'user error' and such things as 'bugs.' Both will always be with us whether we like it or not. User error is always going to daunt us, hopefully bugs will be depleted as design and updates progress. All frustrating, as we have both expressed. In my case, user error is the biggest bug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Lea Posted October 16, 2009 Share #45 Posted October 16, 2009 I would like to comment that in my case, at least, leaving the lens cap on is user error that often results in the loss of the cap, followed by its expensive replacement . I now try to take off the lens cap as soon as I take the lens out of the camera bag. Peter Lea Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 16, 2009 Share #46 Posted October 16, 2009 I would like to comment that in my case, at least, leaving the lens cap on is user error that often results in the loss of the cap, followed by its expensive replacement . I now try to take off the lens cap as soon as I take the lens out of the camera bag.Peter Lea Totally agree with that observation. Happened too many times for me. A more secure design would be a great bonus. I have taken to only using the cap when the lens is in bag. Unfortunately I spend a bit of time in unfriendly environments where wearing the cap as much as possible is desirable. With the IR filters there was a bit of reasonable protection, at the expense of the filter potentially. I don't feel like forking out for 7 UV filters now, just for 'alternative' protection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_mcdermott Posted October 16, 2009 Share #47 Posted October 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would like to comment that in my case, at least, leaving the lens cap on is user error that often results in the loss of the cap, followed by its expensive replacement . I now try to take off the lens cap as soon as I take the lens out of the camera bag.Peter Lea Ha! Don't I know it. Lost the cap to my 18 Super Elmar within 15 minutes of first mounting it on the camera and going out for a quick test shot walkabout. The worst though are the caps for the new 28 Elmarit and the 35 Cron. Sometimes it seems the auto-remove themselves from the hood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pem Posted October 16, 2009 Share #48 Posted October 16, 2009 Dear all, I exactly had these 2 issues with my M8 (last firmware). This was very annoying. I had the feeling that the freezing problem occurs when switching the camera On while pressing the shutter. Sometimes I was pressing the shutter while the camera was Off. I think that if you take the time to remove the finger on the shutter before switching the camera On, this reduces the risk of freezing. best regards Two things happened to me yesterday: 1. Camera was in a sleeping mode. I saw a good picture opportunity lifted the camera up and pressed the shutter. Camera froze and I had to remove the battery and put it back in. Never happened to me with M8. 2. I forgot to take the cap off and took a shot. Instead of waiting for camera go through processing I did what I always did with M8 without any problems - switched it off and turned on again. It froze the camera. All of this is not big deal, BUT.... Anybody experienced similar issues? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokkacream Posted October 16, 2009 Share #49 Posted October 16, 2009 16. Oct. had already taken a series of photos. Auto off after 10 min. then for the next photo the shutter was locked, "FULL" in the viewer, "SD card write potected" on the display. On/Off no effect, neither taking out and putting back the SD card (16GB Sandisk Ultra II). Definitely no physical write protection. All pictures were suddenly locked (key). Battery removal solved the problem immediately. But I missed a nice shot due to this behaviour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 17, 2009 Share #50 Posted October 17, 2009 Ha! Don't I know it. Lost the cap to my 18 Super Elmar within 15 minutes of first mounting it on the camera and going out for a quick test shot walkabout. The worst though are the caps for the new 28 Elmarit and the 35 Cron. Sometimes it seems the auto-remove themselves from the hood. I have both the 28 Elmarit ASPH and the 35 Cron ASPH and I have lost one cap. But it was because "I" did not put it on correctly before taking the lens off the camera to mounting another and placing the 35 in one of my vest pockets. Other then that I have never had the cap come off without me taking it off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 17, 2009 Share #51 Posted October 17, 2009 I have both the 28 Elmarit ASPH and the 35 Cron ASPH and I have lost one cap.But it was because "I" did not put it on correctly before taking the lens off the camera to mounting another and placing the 35 in one of my vest pockets. Other then that I have never had the cap come off without me taking it off. Those particular caps (I have both those lenses) are prone to being 'swiped off' by a jacket flap or similar. I have lost count of how many I have lost to the point where I wont apply them to the lens when I am using them (self defeating) for 'between shot protection. Mainly because I have currently lost both. Now, I find myself cleaning front lens elements more. I don't have an answer to the problem that actually fits a work/shoot flow. Shootist I envy your good luck with yours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted October 17, 2009 Share #52 Posted October 17, 2009 Those particular caps (I have both those lenses) are prone to being 'swiped off' by a jacket flap or similar. I have lost count of how many I have lost to the point where I wont apply them to the lens when I am using them (self defeating) for 'between shot protection. Mainly because I have currently lost both. Now, I find myself cleaning front lens elements more. Sounds like its getting close to the threshhold of provocation sufficient to make one adopt UV filters as transparent lens caps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 17, 2009 Share #53 Posted October 17, 2009 Sounds like its getting close to the threshhold of provocation sufficient to make one adopt UV filters as transparent lens caps. I think I can see through that idea. My greatest fear! More $$'s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelico Posted October 18, 2009 Share #54 Posted October 18, 2009 Sounds like its getting close to the threshhold of provocation sufficient to make one adopt UV filters as transparent lens caps. Ten years ago I have moved from Africa back to Europe and at that time I used few hundreds of small sticker with my name and mobile phone numbers printed on it. I had them so much that I was putting these small stickers on everything I had including lens caps, lenses and all my things that were shipped (well, the lenses I carried with me). Few years ago I lost lens/shade cap for 35/2 in Budapest on the streets, just felt off. Half an hour later I had a call from a Hungarian gentleman who was kind enough to call me and tell me that he found it (he didn’t know what it was but considered it important having sticker with phone number), so I got it back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted October 18, 2009 Share #55 Posted October 18, 2009 UV filters are much cheaper than the UV/IR filters, and MUCH cheaper than Leica lens caps! The B+W brand filters are great, they seem better made to me than the Leica filters and they're relatively inexpensive, especially in the smaller sizes used by most Leica M lenses. I don't really use caps, but I did lose the cap for my 35 'lux hood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 18, 2009 Share #56 Posted October 18, 2009 I don't like using UV filters for protection. The only time I had a front element of a lens(280/4.0 APO-R) damaged it was a deep scratch by a shard of a broken UV filter The "protective" filters ,offered both by B&W and Heliopan are much stronger and are thinner too = less image degradation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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