Lord Fluff Posted June 27, 2011 Share #1 Posted June 27, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi guys I'm a wedding shooter who works with a mix of Canon gear and Leica M. I have an M8 at the moment which doesn't appear to embed a decent JPEG in the DNG as it saves it, and I was wondering if the M9 is the same. I ask since my workflow is to do a cull with Photo Mechanic first (which will show embedded JPEGs from within RAW files almost instantly) then just import the selects into Lightroom. This keeps the catalog smaller, and the first cull is much quicker. However whenever I come to any M8 files the process slows as Photo Mechanic has to properly render a RAW preview in order to look at it, since the embedded JPEG is tiny. In my fantasy world, Leica decided with the M9 to embed a larger JPEG..... I guess a workaround would be to start shooting DNG+JPEG and edit them two at a time....just a little wasteful. Thanks all LF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Hi Lord Fluff, Take a look here Does the M9 embed a decent JPEG?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jonoslack Posted June 27, 2011 Share #2 Posted June 27, 2011 Hi guys I'm a wedding shooter who works with a mix of Canon gear and Leica M. I have an M8 at the moment which doesn't appear to embed a decent JPEG in the DNG as it saves it, and I was wondering if the M9 is the same. I ask since my workflow is to do a cull with Photo Mechanic first (which will show embedded JPEGs from within RAW files almost instantly) then just import the selects into Lightroom. This keeps the catalog smaller, and the first cull is much quicker. However whenever I come to any M8 files the process slows as Photo Mechanic has to properly render a RAW preview in order to look at it, since the embedded JPEG is tiny. In my fantasy world, Leica decided with the M9 to embed a larger JPEG..... I guess a workaround would be to start shooting DNG+JPEG and edit them two at a time....just a little wasteful. Thanks all LF Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm afraid it's the same - importing to an iPad is similarly irritating - teeny weeny jpgs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share #3 Posted June 27, 2011 Dah, nuts thanks anyway Jono Ah well, maybe DNG+JPEG is the way to go (though I've since read this is buggy in the latest firmware?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted June 27, 2011 Share #4 Posted June 27, 2011 I have the same workflow and the same problem. This is one of the things that bothered me about the M8, and now bothers me with the M9. It is a bottleneck in my workflow. But Photo Mechanic is too good to give up. I wonder whether Leica has gotten this feedback from professional photographers. Perhaps they have kept the tiny embedded jpeg because a big one would further slow down in-camera processing. Shooting DNG+JPG works (not buggy as far as I know), but is an awkward workaround for various reasons. I prefer to shoot DNG only. You can put the M9 files in their own folder, or sort by filename in Photo Mechanic, and then edit the M9 files separately using PM's slower raw rendering mode, while using the faster jpeg preview mode when editing the Canon files. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted June 27, 2011 And yet people on here complain vigorously about the LCD resolution - when (correct me if I'm wrong), you're only looking at the tiny embedded JPEG when you look at the shots on the camera anyway...... I'm doing what you describe, hitting Q and then counting to ten. It works, but the PM cull method is soooo fast with non-Leica RAWs that it's frustrating to hit the brakes so badly when it comes to the Leica shots - especially as those are usually the ones I'm most keen on seeing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted June 27, 2011 Share #6 Posted June 27, 2011 Rather than hitting Q, you can work a little faster if you go into Photo Mechanic's preferences, in the RAW tab, and set "For RAW only:" to "Render RAW for Preview if possible". What happens then is that PM will take 10 seconds or so to render the first DNG file, but it will then render the subsequent DNG files in the background, while you're viewing the first one. So as you progress forwards through the images, the subsequent ones will appear almost instantly, maybe not as instantly as embedded jpegs, but not nearly as slow as the first DNG. You will encounter the slow rendering again when you skip to another part of the folder, or (sometimes) when you go backwards instead of forwards. If you have a large number of photos, this is probably a faster way to work than hitting Q for each image. To make it efficient, perhaps isolate the Leica files either by sorting by camera or by placing them in their own folder. Then switch the preference back to "Use embedded JPEG Preview" when you work on the Canon files, so that you don't have to wait for them to render too. Or just leave it in the raw rendering mode for the entire folder, which is what I sometimes do when I have a folder of both Leica & Canon files. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted June 27, 2011 Share #7 Posted June 27, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dah, nuts thanks anyway Jono Ah well, maybe DNG+JPEG is the way to go (though I've since read this is buggy in the latest firmware?) I think it's working okay? I must say, I only use it when I'm on a trip and really want to look at images on the ipad. I wonder whether Leica has gotten this feedback from professional photographers. They certainly have - and I've been bashing away too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noirist Posted June 27, 2011 Share #8 Posted June 27, 2011 If you use Windows, I strongly recommend the FastPictureViewer codec pack. It lets all Windows software work with the RAW files as if they were JPEGs. With the latest version, you can configure it to use the embedded JPGs or not. So if the embedded JPGs are small, you can look at the full resolution DNG raw images with all the Windows tools and quickly cull them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted June 27, 2011 Share #9 Posted June 27, 2011 Shoot DNG+JPEG. Not ideal, but it's a workaround. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share #10 Posted June 28, 2011 I think it's working okay? I must say, I only use it when I'm on a trip and really want to look at images on the ipad. I was referring to this thread http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/187415-m9-1-162-firmware-bug-just.html which I will confess I've not read all the way through, but I gleaned that images were going missing when shooting DNG+JPEG for a few people Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share #11 Posted June 28, 2011 Rather than hitting Q, you can work a little faster if you go into Photo Mechanic's preferences, in the RAW tab, and set "For RAW only:" to "Render RAW for Preview if possible". What happens then is that PM will take 10 seconds or so to render the first DNG file, but it will then render the subsequent DNG files in the background, while you're viewing the first one. Brilliant - I'd not thought of separating them out in this way, thanks zlatkob. Still a bit of a fiddle, but I can put those settings in and go get a coffee and then zip along with the editing I might give DNG+JPEG a go too, since it seems PM can treat the two files as if they were one, which is cool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
povlj Posted June 28, 2011 Share #12 Posted June 28, 2011 Query: Is the JPEG included in the DNG - JPEG mode a larger file than the JPEG Fine only mode? Povl J. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted June 28, 2011 Share #13 Posted June 28, 2011 Query: Is the JPEG included in the DNG - JPEG mode a larger file than the JPEG Fine only mode? You get two images. The DNG (along with its lousy preview) and a JPEG (that you can view up to full resolution). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted June 29, 2011 Share #14 Posted June 29, 2011 I'm a Mac user and Photo Mechanic for Mac has supported M9 files since version 4.6.4 (as described above). It appears that users of Windows and the M9 may not have gotten the same functionality in PM yet. I'm not sure as I don't have Windows. See replies # 13, 14, 15 &16 in this thread: Support for Leica M9 DNG files? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noirist Posted June 29, 2011 Share #15 Posted June 29, 2011 If you install the Fast Picture Viewer Codec Pack for $15, then Windows will fully support all RAW files including the Adobe DNG files out of the M9. I'm a Mac user and Photo Mechanic for Mac has supported M9 files since version 4.6.4 (as described above). It appears that users of Windows and the M9 may not have gotten the same functionality in PM yet. I'm not sure as I don't have Windows. See replies # 13, 14, 15 &16 in this thread:Support for Leica M9 DNG files? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted June 29, 2011 Share #16 Posted June 29, 2011 I also shoot weddings and am curious why you use two different programs in your work flow, and wonder why jpgs are important. I'm always looking for a way to shave of time so would appreciate any insights. My current workflow is to use 4 daisy-chained Lexar Pro FW800 Card Readers and two Sandisk SD readers to download files from up to 4 different cameras at the same time, organize by time shot, do a quick cull in Lightroom, use the exif sorter to isolate by camera, make proof adjustments, and output as jpegs for SmugMug client review. Thanks, -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share #17 Posted June 29, 2011 Hi Marc I shoot fairly large weddings, and with a second shooter. We can come back, as per our recent Russian wedding, with as many as 5000 photos between us from a long day's shooting. Photo Mechanic previews RAW files using the embedded JPEGs. This means you can flick between full-sized good quality images as fast as your cursor will carry you. With Lightroom you have to wait for the program to render a preview from the RAW file, so progress, especially initially can be slow. Photo Mechanic therefore allows me to perform the initial cull very quickly, and then only take into Lightroom the ones that have a high chance of being keepers. If you shoot a high number of frames per event, PM will save you loads of time. The stumbling block for me are the Leica M8 files, which only embed something the size of a thumbnail, so the advantage is lost, hence my original question, hoping the M9 would be better - sadly not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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