simonpj Posted November 2, 2014 Share #1 Posted November 2, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica UK's £500 rebate gave me the final nudge I needed to trade in my M9 for an M-P 240. After the first week, I'm very glad to have taken the plunge. - The shutter sound is a huge improvement, which is a constant pleasant surprise, as I've clearly become used to bracing myself for the M9's whirr and whine when I'm working close to people in quiet settings. - The led-lit viewfinder frames are extremely clear - if a little too assertive at times when the subject is dim. - I'm very happy to have the frame selector lever - something I've always used and can't imaging being without. - Having an extra 1 or 2 stops leeway in low light is very liberating. I was quite happy with what I could do with M9 files shot at ISO 640 and then 'pushed' in LR, but it was frustrating not to have useable jpegs as proofs when using that method. I've been able to shoot at 1600 and 3200 without any worries - and no signs of banding or other nasties. - The extra dynamic range provides welcome safety margin for rescuing highlights. - And I very much prefer the M 240's colour rendering out of the camera. I was very happy with what I could do with M9 files, but often found the out of camera look to be too cold and rather thin. - The faster processor, plus the M-P's larger buffer have meant that I haven't yet been stuck waiting for the buffer to clear and missing shots - even when shooting every second or so, when doing some theatre work. - Focusing using the EVF-2 with R lenses is easier and more accurate than I expected, especially when using B&W mode with red focus peaking. And using old Viso to R adapters and extension tubes has been great with the 125 Hektor and 200 and 280 Telyts. But... - Shutter lag with live-view is a serious handicap, making it totally impossible to capture the moment. You need to try to anticipate the action and press the shutter a second or so ahead of time. - Startup time from standby is very frustrating. With the Samsung cards I'm using it seems to take two or three seconds. Surprisingly, much worse than the M9. On a more trivial note - I was expecting to buy the black version, but when I saw the chrome version in the shop I changed my mind. My impression from handling a chrome M 240 was that the finish looked more like silver paint - but this chrome is very much the real thing. I bought a silver Thumbs Up but changed it for the black one because the silver was such a bad colour match for the chrome. The black looks right - with an M6 panda feel. It's a nice looking camera, but without the frame-line illumination window there is something odd and cyclopian about it. More of an M5 form follows function beauty. I like the fact that it's still very clearly within the M industrial design family - but when seen next to a chrome M4 it's also clear how going digital has forced Leica to take the M several shoe sizes up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 2, 2014 Posted November 2, 2014 Hi simonpj, Take a look here M9 to M-P 240: first impressions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
simonpj Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted November 2, 2014 Using the EVF-2 with non-M lenses has been more fun than I expected, though I'm not sure how much practical use it will be, given the very significant live-view shutter lag. I was very impressed by the quality of the Canon FD 85mm f1.2 SSC Aspherical at f1.2 - and by the fact that I was able to focus it accurately in low light. The photo below is at f1.2 and ISO 3200, shot in dim light during a heated conversation over the dinner table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonpj Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted November 2, 2014 One thing I omitted to mention is that my new M-P 240 was incorrectly adjusted for infinity focus when I got it home. My heart sank when I discovered that my Noctilux and 75 Summilux were significantly back-focusing at middle distances with the M-P 240. I then went on to check my other 50's and longer lenses and they all showed the same problem. My Noctilux and 75 Lux had recently been calibrated with my M9 at Solms, so I was confident that they weren't the problem. At first I reluctantly assumed I would have to take the camera back to be checked - or send it off with the Noct and 75 Lux to Wetzlar for calibration. But I thought I would try to adjust the infinity calibration first. Luckily, it wasn't difficult, with a bit of delicate allen key work, to make a small adjustment to the infinity setting which now means that all of my lenses are absolutely spot on at all distances. For someone who didn't know about or wasn't comfortable with making the infinity adjustment this would have been a major headache. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonpj Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted November 2, 2014 Another important thing that I forgot to mention is that I could clearly see the supposedly improved acuity in the rangefinder patch. I'm acutely aware of how well I can see focus in the rangefinder patch because I'm always swapping back and forth between different pairs of glasses and screw-in diopters. The new M 240 finder is definitely a step up from any other M finder I have used, which is a welcome improvement - especially if one has less than perfect vision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 2, 2014 Share #5 Posted November 2, 2014 As you say, the size issue relates to digital versus film Ms, not the M240 per se, as your M9 would have appeared virtually identical size-wise in your pics. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonpj Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted November 2, 2014 As you say, the size issue relates to digital versus film Ms, not the M240 per se, as your M9 would have appeared virtually identical size-wise in your pics. Jeff Absolutely. And though a film M feels wonderfully handy after a digital M, I don't mind the weight or form factor of the digital M's at all, in practice. And I also didn't notice whatever weight difference there is between the the M9 and M 240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted November 3, 2014 Share #7 Posted November 3, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Having also moved from an M9 to M240, and years of using an M4, I agree with almost everything you said. I think it was disgusting they omitted the frame selector on the original M240, but I got used to doing without, and having purchased mine as a demo for nearly $2K under the new price of the M240P, I'm not really regretting my decision. The silver chrome finish of the M240 silver is about the same as it has been since the M4P, that is to say, not as rich as the M4, but it isn't something I really care about. Fortunately my rangefinder was spot on from the factory. I'm sorry to hear Leica is still having QC issues with that. My M9 was a mess, needed adjustment of the arm sweep in addition to the infinity. I DIYed it but it was quite a tedious task. I don't find the M240 rangefinder any clearer than the M9 was. But I agree about the EVF, the lag is completely contrary to the immediacy of capture which is a hallmark advantage of the M camera. It has its uses but they are just as limiting as a Visoflex albeit in different ways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted November 9, 2014 Share #8 Posted November 9, 2014 But... - Shutter lag with live-view is a serious handicap, making it totally impossible to capture the moment. You need to try to anticipate the action and press the shutter a second or so ahead of time. - Startup time from standby is very frustrating. With the Samsung cards I'm using it seems to take two or three seconds. Surprisingly, much worse than the M9. I have moved to M240 from M9 in last three weeks and having fun as well (I did post a similar first impression post). Now to the above two points: - I agree about the shutter lag. To get around it, after doing the focusing I switch off the liveview and move to the optical finder and keep object in the center (since there is no frame line for longer R lens). I also noticed that focusing and shooting with my old 135mm tele-elmar is so much better compared to my 80-200 vario elmar R, for the same lag/blackout reasons. For M lenses I see no reason to use live view. - for startup time, I have a habit of tapping on the shutter (even with M9) while I am lifting the camera or pulling out the camera. By the time it comes to my eye level, camera is on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonpj Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share #9 Posted November 9, 2014 - for startup time, I have a habit of tapping on the shutter (even with M9) while I am lifting the camera or pulling out the camera. By the time it comes to my eye level, camera is on. That sounds like a good idea. Not ideal, really, that that should be necessary - but should help, once it becomes a habit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted November 9, 2014 Share #10 Posted November 9, 2014 Using the EVF-2 with non-M lenses has been more fun than I expected, though I'm not sure how much practical use it will be, given the very significant live-view shutter lag. I was very impressed by the quality of the Canon FD 85mm f1.2 SSC Aspherical at f1.2 - and by the fact that I was able to focus it accurately in low light. The photo below is at f1.2 and ISO 3200, shot in dim light during a heated conversation over the dinner table. Enjoy your new camera but be careful with the higher iso ranges as you will get banding in shadows (see above the hands in the jumper) as you can see in your shot here. You can pretty much get rid of it if you use 'Nik Dfine 2' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonpj Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share #11 Posted November 12, 2014 Enjoy your new camera but be careful with the higher iso ranges as you will get banding in shadows (see above the hands in the jumper) as you can see in your shot here. You can pretty much get rid of it if you use 'Nik Dfine 2' Thanks David. I've looked for banding with the M 240, but haven't noticed any yet - apart from in grossly underexposed test shots of almost total darkness. You may be right about banding in this photo, but I can't see it myself. To my eye the photo records the colours and pattern of the jumper correctly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted November 14, 2014 Share #12 Posted November 14, 2014 I didnt run in any banding Problems either so far. I didnt search for it though. Plus I am not someone wanting to make a Scene flat which looked contrasty in reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted November 14, 2014 Share #13 Posted November 14, 2014 The banding that the M240 produces can be easily fixed/removed in post by using Nik Dfine2 noise-reduction software / plug-in for Photoshop/Lightroom. Just enable the "Debanding" feature in the Manual/More menu, and set a percentage of 30-35% removal and select vertical or horizontal depending on if you made the picture in portrait or landscape. Disable the NR itself: The grain is great at ISO 3200, the banding not so much. This easily eliminates the banding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted November 18, 2014 Share #14 Posted November 18, 2014 Enjoy your new camera but be careful with the higher iso ranges as you will get banding in shadows (see above the hands in the jumper) as you can see in your shot here. You can pretty much get rid of it if you use 'Nik Dfine 2' Indergaard I also have this nuisance of the banding in high ISO. It is both in LR and in C1, even though C1 standard has a lower noise level. It spoils some of my pictures, is my opinion, can you explain how this DFINE works? The point is that there are horizontal and vertical lines forming kind of blobs. This pattern goes way beyond normal noise handling. It is related to the sense. Maybe there is a thread on the issue. Otherwise I can post some examples from late night pictures. [i already started to crave for the CCD fingerprint, oh my gosh, what a bad habit of mine to look back]. albert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted November 18, 2014 Share #15 Posted November 18, 2014 IndergaardI also have this nuisance of the banding in high ISO. It is both in LR and in C1, even though C1 standard has a lower noise level. It spoils some of my pictures, is my opinion, can you explain how this DFINE works? The point is that there are horizontal and vertical lines forming kind of blobs. This pattern goes way beyond normal noise handling. It is related to the sense. Maybe there is a thread on the issue. Otherwise I can post some examples from late night pictures. [i already started to crave for the CCD fingerprint, oh my gosh, what a bad habit of mine to look back]. albert Dfine is a part of the Nik Software plug-in collection for Photoshop / Lightroom. It is mainly a noise reduction software (one of the best available), but it also has a debanding feature. It works great, and easily removes the banding / stripes that the M240 (and any other camera) creates at high iso. See this example, taken at 3200 ISO with the M240. The only difference here is that I opened the file in Photoshop, enabled the Debanding feature in the Dfine plug-in with a percentage of 35% and set to vertical (since this is a image that was taken in vertical mode, even though the crop is not): Before: After: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted November 19, 2014 Share #16 Posted November 19, 2014 Indergaard, Here is one of my pictures: a 40% corner crop from a 90th birthday dinner party the other day. 3200 asa. Underexposed, to give natural character of the evening. I use manual exposure. First: kudo's to Leica for the good camera and good high iso - I tried DFein. In my LR+Dfine I see no slider for the banding: Just enable the "Debanding" feature in the Manual/More menu, and set a percentage of 30-35% removal and select vertical or horizontal This is my outcome: Original Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! With LR noise reduction (goes to some extent) Why I did not do it: the face also gets bland. Automatic in DFine Opinion: in automatic this does not do the job as I like it. Still has stripes. Manual in DFine Good job done. But . . Both LR and DFine reduces noise all over the picture, even when I manually add a control point in the face and set the NR to zero there ... next to the ones in the green colored background and in the red curtain with almost max contrast noise. I do like the original noise in the face, see the eyebrow, noise has contrast and signature, but that also gets affected. In all treated images. The posted pictures convey not what I see on screen :roll eyes: - on screen I see a darker band that remains in the picture, just slight but still there. OK: what I learned is I should not underexpose at high ISO, rather reduce the exposure in post processing. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! With LR noise reduction (goes to some extent) Why I did not do it: the face also gets bland. Automatic in DFine Opinion: in automatic this does not do the job as I like it. Still has stripes. Manual in DFine Good job done. But . . Both LR and DFine reduces noise all over the picture, even when I manually add a control point in the face and set the NR to zero there ... next to the ones in the green colored background and in the red curtain with almost max contrast noise. I do like the original noise in the face, see the eyebrow, noise has contrast and signature, but that also gets affected. In all treated images. The posted pictures convey not what I see on screen :roll eyes: - on screen I see a darker band that remains in the picture, just slight but still there. OK: what I learned is I should not underexpose at high ISO, rather reduce the exposure in post processing. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/236462-m9-to-m-p-240-first-impressions/?do=findComment&comment=2709667'>More sharing options...
indergaard Posted November 19, 2014 Share #17 Posted November 19, 2014 I almost never use Dfine with the automatic settings. I find them to be too agressive. I rarely use the noise reduction part of Dfine. I only use the debanding tool for the M240, as I find the grain at 3200 ISO (the max ISO I use on my M240) completely acceptable. The only time I might use the noise reduction is with 4000+ ISO images on my Sony RX100M3 The debanding feature in Dfine is a little bit hidden. To find it, you have to open an image in Dfine and then: 1. Select the "Reduce" button/tab in the upper right of the interface. The default selection is "Measure" when you open Dfine. 2. Click the "> More" button on the lower right of the panel. This button is really small! 3. Here you enable "Debanding" and select "Horizontal" or "Vertical" and the percentage. You also get other options here, as Edge Preservation and JPEG Artifact Reduction, but I haven't used those. For my use, I then go to the Contrast and Color noise sliders and drag them to 0% as I don't want any noise reduction, just debanding. The Debanding feature is great, and works superb on images with banding. But it is hidden in the interface, which is sad, cause it's a great feature. If you can't find the debanding option here, you need to update your Nik Software suite by downloading and installing it again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 20, 2014 Share #18 Posted November 20, 2014 ... LR ….reduces noise all over the picture No, LR also has noise reduction capability using either the adjustment brush or the graduated filter. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.