CheshireCat Posted July 7, 2013 Share #1 Posted July 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) After the "survey" experience about Leica M being unreliable, I must say I am horrified about the way surveys are "implemented" in this site and often end up in chaotic discussions (because we are all humans ). PROBLEM 1: Lack of support for creating an actual survey (instead of a plain textual thread in which users are asked to keep the count updated). No need for details. Remove the human factor == use computers. This is just an implementation issue, and modern computers are perfectly capable of counting votes instead of humans . They can also present the stats using nice diagrams, allow users to change their vote, allow a precise count of any of multiple possible answers, et cetera. PROBLEM 2: Impossible to restrict voters to actual owners of one or more camera model. Just add checkboxes in the user profile, so the site knows which camera models any of us has owned. Then make the survey creator specify whether a filter is needed. Those who do not own the camera will just not see the "Vote" nor "Post Comment" button. PROBLEM 3: Users polluting the survey with comments. Let the survey creator decide if only votes are allowed, or users can also post comments. Apart from point 2, which is a nice customization for this site, this is nothing revolutionary, as most forum sites already have these features. Thanks for your attention. I wanted to conduct a survey on whether this is a good idea... but... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 Hi CheshireCat, Take a look here Site improvement: Proper Surveys. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted July 8, 2013 Share #2 Posted July 8, 2013 Setting up a valid survey in any form, anywhere, is a skill that few have, if the results are to be of any use, as skewed or poorly drafted questions, lead to skewed results. Moderators can set up polls on the forum, but they are open to any member to contribute to, so you cannot restrict contributions to a particular elite sub-group. At the end of the day, surveys on forums have little use in the wider world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 8, 2013 Share #3 Posted July 8, 2013 ..or we could become poll-obsessed and filled, like RFF. "horrified" is a little OTT for sonething like this surely? Still, it is Monday... Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share #4 Posted July 8, 2013 Setting up a valid survey in any form, anywhere, is a skill that few have, if the results are to be of any use, as skewed or poorly drafted questions, lead to skewed results. Same can be said about normal textual posts. Anything must be filtered cum grano salis. Moderators can set up polls on the forum, but they are open to any member to contribute to, so you cannot restrict contributions to a particular elite sub-group. Why cannot normal users set up polls ? You are probably aware of mortal users trying to setup surveys/polls using normal text posts. I find this ridiculous, and hurting forum users. Therefore it should be addressed by site admins.. Also, some polls need to be restricted to actual users of a product in order to remove entropy and provide reliable results. It is not elite sub-groups, it is actual users with first hand experience. At the end of the day, surveys on forums have little use in the wider world. Along the same nichilist line of reasoning, we can say that posts on forums have little use in the wider world. I suggest you restrict posting to moderators only Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 8, 2013 Share #5 Posted July 8, 2013 Why cannot normal users set up polls ? That's not the way that the forum owner has decided he wants the forum to operate. It's also impossible to restrict responents to a certain clique of your choosing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 8, 2013 Share #6 Posted July 8, 2013 Also, some polls need to be restricted to actual users of a product in order to remove entropy and provide reliable results And how would you propose to achieve this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted July 9, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) And how would you propose to achieve this? I have explained it in my first post, under PROBLEM 2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 9, 2013 Share #8 Posted July 9, 2013 I have explained it in my first post, under PROBLEM 2. Yes, I read that but it wouldn't work. For one thing you wouldn't be identifying what equipment a user owns, you'd be identifying what buttons someone has pressed. Secondly, it would require the owner of the forum, and the mods, to create and maintain a huge list of cameras, lenses and accessories. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 9, 2013 Share #9 Posted July 9, 2013 And what if some naughty scamp checked a box for a camera that they didn't own? This is the Leica Forum. It isn't a hundred little sub-forums and cliques. Anyone with an interest in Leica is welcome to post anywhere in the forum, regardless of whether they own one Leica, a hundred different Leicas or even none at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share #10 Posted July 9, 2013 That's not the way that the forum owner has decided he wants the forum to operate. This is now perfectly clear to me, but I propose to change it to make users happier. t's also impossible to restrict responents to a certain clique of your choosing Very few things are impossible Perhaps you meant "unfair". In that case, it is also "unfair" that some users can afford buying a product and other don't. But that's a more complicated problem to solve, I believe, so may I suggest solving the simpler one by giving right to vote to anyone and then presenting two results diagrams: one for actual owners of the product(s) in question, the other for all voters. Comparing the two diagrams will render results in a new interesting perspective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share #11 Posted July 9, 2013 ..or we could become poll-obsessed and filled, like RFF. "horrified" is a little OTT for sonething like this surely? Well, not if a single user can only post one poll every two months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 9, 2013 Share #12 Posted July 9, 2013 You should have a poll first to find out whether forum members want or need a poll facility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 9, 2013 Share #13 Posted July 9, 2013 Right now, mods are conducting a poll of their own! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 9, 2013 Share #14 Posted July 9, 2013 Yes, but any poll on polls will be biased because only users that are inclined to approve of polls will vote on a poll to evaluate polls, whilst those that dislike polls will not vote on any poll even if the poll is about polls. So we need a poll about the sense to have a poll about polls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share #15 Posted July 9, 2013 Yes, I read that but it wouldn't work. For one thing you wouldn't be identifying what equipment a user owns, you'd be identifying what buttons someone has pressed. Secondly, it would require the owner of the forum, and the mods, to create and maintain a huge list of cameras, lenses and accessories. Well, depends on how much you trust your users. Someone will cheat, of course, but that is part of everyday life. Lots of good mods and honest users here, so this can work perfectly enough About maintaining a list of cameras and accessories, I would limit it to the bare minimum, grouping by hardware generation. For example, the M line would be one checkbox for each: - M8 - M9, MP, ME - MM - M Typ 240 - EVF - Multifunctional Handgrip M No lenses. No special editions. No adapters. No "passive" accessories. No full time job to keep up to date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 9, 2013 Share #16 Posted July 9, 2013 In that case, it is also "unfair" that some users can afford buying a product and other don't. It's not unfair. It's life. I can't afford a digital M. But I don't consider that to be unfair, just something that is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 9, 2013 Share #17 Posted July 9, 2013 - M8- M9, MP, ME - MM - M Typ 240 - EVF - Multifunctional Handgrip M So, film M users are no longer required? How quickly we forget... Plus there are the Digilux users, the V-Lux users, all of the D-Lux users, all of the X variant users, the S users, the screw-thread users... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share #18 Posted July 9, 2013 Yes, but any poll on polls will be biased because only users that are inclined to approve of polls will vote on a poll to evaluate polls, whilst those that dislike polls will not vote on any poll even if the poll is about polls. So we need a poll about the sense to have a poll about polls. If one is really bothered by polls, a vote will certainly cast. Just let the poll on polls be the following: Do you want user-created polls on this site ? [ ] NO, and I hope this is the last poll I see on this site. [ ] YES, because each user will only be able to create one poll every two months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share #19 Posted July 9, 2013 So, film M users are no longer required? How quickly we forget... Fair enough, apologies. I hoped it would pass unnoticed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 9, 2013 Share #20 Posted July 9, 2013 But group the polls in one subforum then, as they do mess up the forum. I think the system whereby a mod can create a poll if a member makes a reasonable request, which is what we have now ( in theory, nobody ever does this) is a better way.. I personally am not looking forward to "do you brush your cat before you make a "new lens" shot and if so with a brush or a comb? " poll threads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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