cfc247 Posted July 24, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 24, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am planning to sell my 28 cron to pick up a 25 zeiss or cv (m-mount) since the 28 is too close to my 35 lux. I'll be using the 25 about 20% of the time so I didn't want to drop the extra cash for the 24 elmarit. Having no experience with either the zeiss or cv, I was wondering if owners out there could comment on the following: coding, IQ, contrast, and ergonomics. The Zeiss is almost triple the price of the CV. The extra speed is nice but there would need to be more to it than just speed for me to spend the extra cash. I'm wondering if there really is a noticeable difference between the two in regards to the previously mentioned categories. Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Hi cfc247, Take a look here Need the right 25 (Zeiss or CV), feedback please. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Printmaker Posted July 24, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 24, 2009 I am planning to sell my 28 cron to pick up a 25 zeiss or cv (m-mount) since the 28 is too close to my 35 lux. I'll be using the 25 about 20% of the time so I didn't want to drop the extra cash for the 24 elmarit. Having no experience with either the zeiss or cv, I was wondering if owners out there could comment on the following: coding, IQ, contrast, and ergonomics. The Zeiss is almost triple the price of the CV. The extra speed is nice but there would need to be more to it than just speed for me to spend the extra cash. I'm wondering if there really is a noticeable difference between the two in regards to the previously mentioned categories. Thanks in advance. Ergonomics: Look through your viewfinder with your 35 lux attached. Looking at the 24 mm frame will give you a good idea of how much of the frame the Zeiss 25 will block. If you can live with it then get the Zeiss, otherwise the CV will give you more frame to compose with. Contrast: Zeiss has more. Not much but more. My Zeiss 21 has more contrast than my summicrons and my CVs but I like the look. IQ: Similar - if you get a good copy of the CV. FWIW: You might consider keeping your 28 and picking up a Zeiss 21/4.5 C. It has the highest rez and it's quite small. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted July 24, 2009 Share #3 Posted July 24, 2009 Can't comment on the Ziess or CV 25's but I do have the CV 21P Skopar M mount lens and it is very good but not as good as a 21 Elmarit Pre ASPH I had and certainly not as good as the current ASPH 21 f/2.8 or f1/4 Lux. I can tell you the Leica 24mm Elmarit is one fantastic lens and I doubt either the Ziess or CV come close, except for the difference in cost. I sold my 24 Elmarit because is very rarely got used and I'd either go for the 28mm or the 21mm lens. Don't sell yourself short and at least look for a good used 24mm Elmarit. Here are a couple from the 24 Elmarit. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/91593-need-the-right-25-zeiss-or-cv-feedback-please/?do=findComment&comment=972376'>More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted July 25, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 25, 2009 Can't comment on the Zeiss or CV, but the 24 Elmarit Asph is really an amazing lens. If you're selling a 28 'Cron you should be able to raise enough to fund a used 24 Elmarit. I didn't plan to use it much but the 24 quickly became my main M8 lens. I sold the Elmarit to pay for my 24 'Lux, but the Elmarit was a very special lens and you might at least try one out if you can. Can't say enough good things about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc247 Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted July 25, 2009 Thank you for your comments. The two things that hold me back from the 24 elmarit are size and cost. While I certainly could fund a use copy with the sale of my 28, with the 35 as my primary lens, I am wondering whether it is worth spending the extra for the elmarit over the cv, which is slightly less than a quarter of the price. The cv is also a nice size. I've read nothing but rave reviews about the 24 elmarit so I am a believer. I just would like to know how it compares to the cv. For some reason Sean didn't have a direct comparison of 24/25 lenses on his site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted July 25, 2009 Share #6 Posted July 25, 2009 To answer half of your question(s) and not drift off into LeicaLensLand... I have the Zeiss 25mm. Short answer: Wicked sharp. It is my favorite lens for the M8, with the 35mm Summicron ASPH a close second. After my first outing with the Zeiss, I printed a 13 x 19 "proof" and showed it to my local dealer. He showed it around the store and twisted my arm until I promised to send him a file that he could print up (not that he had to twist very hard). I recommend you subscribe to Sean Reid's Reid Reviews. His site has a comparison test of 24/25mm lenses. (It should be noted that his example of the 25mm Zeiss didn't bring up the correct M8 frame lines, but current production version does.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
butchhul Posted July 25, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 25, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Got the Zeiss, Love it, very close to view of 35mm on film M. Spends more time on my 8 than any other lens Butch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc247 Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted July 25, 2009 thanks for your thoughts. i just found the review on Sean's site (somehow missed it before). I'll give it a read and see if I have anymore questions to ask. Is your 25 coded? Is the sharpness what Leicaphiles would describe as "clinical" or more refined. How does its drawing differ from the 35 cron ASPH? To answer half of your question(s) and not drift off into LeicaLensLand... I have the Zeiss 25mm. Short answer: Wicked sharp. It is my favorite lens for the M8, with the 35mm Summicron ASPH a close second. After my first outing with the Zeiss, I printed a 13 x 19 "proof" and showed it to my local dealer. He showed it around the store and twisted my arm until I promised to send him a file that he could print up (not that he had to twist very hard). I recommend you subscribe to Sean Reid's Reid Reviews. His site has a comparison test of 24/25mm lenses. (It should be noted that his example of the 25mm Zeiss didn't bring up the correct M8 frame lines, but current production version does.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc247 Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted July 25, 2009 Thanks for the comment. BTW--where does the 24 Elmar fit in this comparison? Anyone? Got the Zeiss, Love it, very close to view of 35mm on film M. Spends more time on my 8 than any other lens Butch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 25, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 25, 2009 I too own and use the Zeiss 25mm Biogon. My own conclusion: Wide open, it is better around the edges and in the corners than the Elmarit, it is very well made, and this at half the price. See to it that you get it delivered with a bayonet that keys in the proper 24/35/135 frames of a M camera (with the Zeiss Ikon camera, it brings up the 50/75). The bayonet has the new 'hand keying groove'. You will love that lens. Buy the round vented hood for it. And to cap the heresy: Let me point out that the word 'Summicron' is just a speed label. It is not magical. Many Leica 1:2 lenses are indeed the best, but not all of them, and if you use lenses as tools, and not as fetishes or items of bling-bling, then there is always the cost-benefit analysis to consider. The old man from the Age of the Super-Angulon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc247 Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted July 25, 2009 lars, thanks for the comment...is your lens coded? i'm wondering what the color is like from this lens without the coding since that seems to be an issue with the zeiss lenses (the coding I mean). Also, if anyone has some sample photos from the lens could you share them? Especially those that show the contrast behavior of the lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted July 25, 2009 Share #12 Posted July 25, 2009 Two exemples taken this week in Spain with the CV 25/4 P Leica M mount Rangefinder coupled coded as the new Leica ELMAR- M 1:3,8/24 mm ASPH. This lens is just a little gem... small and razor sharp. I use it a lot in one of my bodies together with the MATE and WATE when f4 is not a problem. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/91593-need-the-right-25-zeiss-or-cv-feedback-please/?do=findComment&comment=972904'>More sharing options...
cfc247 Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted July 25, 2009 Artz, thanks for posting your photos. although its hard to tell from web images, the lens seems sharp with good resolution. how did you get the lens coded? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted July 25, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 25, 2009 Artz, thanks for posting your photos. although its hard to tell from web images, the lens seems sharp with good resolution. how did you get the lens coded? Mark, I bought it at Cameraquest on November 2007. Stephan Gandi sent the lens directly to John Milich who coded it. I picked it up directly at Milich's while I was in NY. TIP: If you live outside the US, Cameraquest can send the lens directly to John Milich (you won't pay local taxes and, usually, Cameraquest offers free delivery inside the US) and John will bill you for coding and sending the lens to your Country. This avoids unnecessary trips between Countries and reduces the risks. PS:I have added 2 crops at 100% This lens is very sharp at f8 and sharp at f4. I'm impressed with the quality of this lens... especially when you know the price! I just have made a dirty conversion from DNG to JPG using ADCSee Pro 2.5 for posting here. Obviously, using C1 or Adobe Camera RAW you will get much better results. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/91593-need-the-right-25-zeiss-or-cv-feedback-please/?do=findComment&comment=972924'>More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted July 25, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 25, 2009 I have the Zeiss 25mm and it is the lens I use most frequently. It is extremely sharp. I got it with the mount that brings up the right frame lines, and had John Milich mill coding indents. I also got the lens hood for it, though flare does not seem to be a big problem. For the price, it is superb. I agree with an earlier poster that it is nearly as sharp as a 35mm Summicron, which is plenty sharp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted July 26, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 26, 2009 Absolutely, positively - the Zeiss 2,8/25 Biogon ZM. It's probably my favorite and certainly my most used lens... Oddly, with both film and digital. It's stupid sharp, contrasty, well saturated, zero distortion, flat field, yada yada. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 26, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 26, 2009 lars, thanks for the comment...is your lens coded? i'm wondering what the color is like from this lens without the coding since that seems to be an issue with the zeiss lenses (the coding I mean). [ ... ] Yes, it is coded. I pulled the bayonet as soon as I had checked the lens thoroughly, and sent it to John Milich (across the Atlantic and back in very little time. Thanks, John.) I coded the lens as a 24mm Elmarit ASPH, and it works perfectly. BTW here is a correction: I stated that the 'native' frames keying of the 25mm Distagon is 50/75. This is not correct, it is 28/90. But that too is of course wrong. You have to order it with 24/35 keying. You can remove and re-install the bayonet yourself, if you know what you are about. Use a precision screwdriver bit that fits the screw slots perfectly. It should be ground parallel, not like a blunt wedge! Put a drop of acetone on the screw head and count ten before you start. Use acetone again when replacing the screws. But again, do check everything before you void the guaranty. Also, I am not responsible for your mistakes and bungling. I have a steel safety front door, and also, Swedish damages law is nothing like that in the U.S. of A. The old man from the Age of Screwdrivers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc247 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted July 27, 2009 It seems the 25 biogon is a favorite among many. I think I would like to give it a try. My best bet seems to be a used copy already M-mount updated and coded, which I'll have to scour the forums for. Any recommendations for retailers/online sellers of used zeiss zm lenses? As always, thank you everyone for all the helpful comments and photos! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted July 28, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 28, 2009 thanks for your thoughts. i just found the review on Sean's site (somehow missed it before). I'll give it a read and see if I have anymore questions to ask. Is your 25 coded? Is the sharpness what Leicaphiles would describe as "clinical" or more refined. How does its drawing differ from the 35 cron ASPH? Sorry about the delay getting back...Lost the partition on my boot drive so I was busy doing geek stuff for a few days... I can't answer the "drawing" question very well. I suspect that many Leicaphiles would find it clinical, but others wouldn't. I just find that the Zeiss shows me what I want to see. The 35mm Summicron is a pretty darn fine lens too, and totally usable wide open -- but it is a little different. (I suspect that the late pre-ASPH Summicrons might have a bit more character -- at least according to some here.) If I was to talk about any of my lenses "painting", it would be the pre-ASPH Summilux -- but that's another topic. P.S. Don't worry about getting a used one with coding. Just try to get one that seems smooth, isn't dinged up, and that you can test to make sure everything works on the camera (less the coding). You can always get a new mount from John Milich later. And yes -- the 25mm is coded. I have a Milich bronze mount on it. My favorite trio is the Zeiss 25mm, the 35mm Summicron, and the 50mm pre-ASPH Summilux. (In fact, if I were to advise someone who wanted an M8 but was hesitant about the prices of lenses, I'd modify that list to 25mm Zeiss, 35mm Summarit, and C/V 50mm f/1.5. A person could do some serious shooting, and not feel bad about trading up, over, or down as he/she got some experience.) P.S. Don't worry about getting a used coded lens. Just try to find one that is in good shape, and that you can test drive on your camera (less the coding part). You can always get a replacement mount later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashwinrao1 Posted July 28, 2009 Share #20 Posted July 28, 2009 Hi Mark, I just ordered this very lens from PopFlash Photo in California. Tony Rose is the proprietor, and there are many positive comments about him and his sale. I was able to purchase one from him for $969, plus I got the optional vented hood for $65ish, so I broke the bank for just over $1k, with overnight shipping. I get the lens tomorrow, and I will be excited to test it out and will let you know how "clinical" or not it is.... Seems that B&H and Adorama have the lens comparably priced, but I went with Tony and PopFlash, and I have been thrilled so far. I will likely go with them again for future lens purchases. By the way, PopFlash has the Biogons that are modified for M8 frame lines (that is, they bring up the 24 mm lines, while unmodified ones bring up the 50/75 lines). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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