Kodakchrome Alternative

[Vicente]

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Hello,

 

I currently sold all of my Nikon gear and purchased an M2 and a 50mm Summitar!

I have always loved the look of the old Kodachrome, is there any film alternatives that relatively gets close to the old look of the Kodak?

 

Regards,

Vicente

[adan]

First - WHICH Kodachrome?

 

There were at least five, each with somewhat different "looks": Kodachrome, Kodachrome II, Kodachrome X, Kodachrome 25, Kodachrome 64 (not to mention Kodachrome 200, which was vastly different from the others yet again).

 

Ernst Haas stashed away 1000 rolls of KII in a freezer in 1974 because he didn't like the "look" of the "new" Kodachrome 25 as much - so there were differences.

 

Second - which part of the "look" are you most interested in? Contrast? Color rendition? Grain? Resolution?

 

(Personally, I think low-ISO digital with Leica lenses comes the closest to the K25 I shot once upon a time - but since the film forum doesn't want to hear that, and since you do want to use the M2, I won't mention it again and will stick to film suggestions if you can specify which Kodachrome "look" interests you most).

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[Vicente]

Forgive my naiveté, but I believe I am referring to the Kodachrome 64.

And more specifically, i love the intense colors, sharpness and how deep the "shadows" are, im not quite sure if im using the correct wording to match these descriptions with the image's characteristics.

[aesop]

...a bit off-topic, but the title of this thread set my heart racing. I had visions of some august establishment picking up the baton where Dwayne's had dropped it. Imprecations!

[lincoln_m]

Vincete,

Kodak E100VG is supposedly a K64 replacement. I tried E100G once and seemed to under expose too much in bright sun so I had quite dark slides but deep saturation. I stay with Fujichrome now but might try Kodak again.

 

Velvia 50 had/has the contrast boost that K64 had which makes for a wide DMAX on the final slide making scanning a little difficult as even on a 16-bit ADC the scanned image goes off both ends of the histogram especially if an image is taken during the middle of the day when the image source has also the extreme dynamic range (I know this is a bad time to shoot and one should get up early instead).

 

Provia has the more natural colour rendition (almost like Kodachrome) but not the added contrast. Setting your ISO to 120? when using Provia 100 would give it ~1/3rd stop under exposure and deeper saturation that you might be looking for. Or do the same with Velvia 100DL.

 

Have fun and try them all. I find I work best when I'm used to the film and use it always as this means I become more consistent and can imagine how it will look when I get them back from processing. Well most of the time anyway.

 

Regards, Lincoln

[lincoln_m]

Vicente,

I see you're subjects are mainly human portraits so I'd not choose Velvia in that case as the magenta / warm cast does not suit skin tones so much as landscapes. Provia or Astia would be bette for your subjects. Like wise E100VG would not be so good for people shots.

Regards, Lincoln

[twittle]

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...a bit off-topic, but the title of this thread set my heart racing. I had visions of some august establishment picking up the baton where Dwayne's had dropped it. Imprecations!

 

What do you mean "where Dwayne's had dropped it"? Were they the driving force behind Kodak's decision to end production? If so, this is news to me.

[aesop]

What do you mean "where Dwayne's had dropped it"? Were they the driving force behind Kodak's decision to end production? If so, this is news to me.

 

 

...not sure what you're struggling with or where you're trying to go with this, twittle - the operative word here is "where", as in Dwayne's clearly communicated cut-off date. My post was very nuanced, so you may want to re-read it to see if it does make sense. There does not have to be a villain.

 

Re: the rationale behind the cessation of Kodachrome production, I am sure there is an official reason, but I can only imagine it was driven purely by economics.

[wildlightphoto]

Forgive my naiveté, but I believe I am referring to the Kodachrome 64.

And more specifically, i love the intense colors, sharpness and how deep the "shadows" are, im not quite sure if im using the correct wording to match these descriptions with the image's characteristics.

 

I like Kodak E100G as a K64 alternative.

[adan]

Right - "Kodachrome 64. Intense colors, sharpness and deep shadows."

 

For intense colors, sharpness and deep shadows, I'd have to vote for Velvia 50. As mentioned, it does not match the "classic" model of a studio portrait film, but your portraits have an edginess that Velvia might suit well. Personally, I liked it as a portrait film for intense documentary portraits.

 

Fuji intentionally designed the original Velvia (RVP) to go head-to-head against Kodachrome. The Velvias are pretty much the only E6 films that have a DMax (maximum density, "deep shadows") that comes close to K64. And Fuji designed in chemical "edge enhancement" effects to replicate the edge sharpness of K'chrome's dye-in-the-developer processing.

 

My feeling about E100G and Provia 100 is that they are really good "Ektachromes" - but quite different from Kodachrome. Just not the same intensity.

 

E100G with a stop of push-processing to boost the saturation and contrast slightly might be worth a look. Unfortunately, though, push processing tends to gray out the Dmax sometimes.

 

For the record - KODAK killed Kodachrome. Dwayne's is simply bowing to the fact that there will be no more film or chemicals forthcoming from Kodak, thus no way to continue offering processing.

Edited October 14, 2010 by adan

[NZDavid]

I would also vote for E100G. Strong but not over-saturated colors, deep shadows. Fuji Provia 100F might also be worth a whirl, but I have found it can have a bluish cast. Fuji Astia 100F has infinitesimal grain but very neutral colors. It's all personal taste -- which results do you like best?

[JBA]

I'll put in another vote for Velvia 50. I plan to shoot a lot of it once my Kodachrome's finished at the end of the year.

[Xmas]

I'd buy some Kchroms shoot it at the weekend, send it to Dwanes Monday.

 

The M2 will be junk thereafter get a M9 I'll PM my postal & you can send it to me.

 

Noel

[stunsworth]

I'm struggling to see how Velvia (especially 50) can be described as a Kodachrome alternative - assuming that 'alternative' means that the original poster is looking for something that looks like Kodachrome.

[budrichard]

For those of us that have used the various Kodachrome's since the 1950's, the simple fact is that there is nothing that is like ANY of the previous K emulsions, semantics aside.

K was inherently different as the color dyes were put IN during processing and NOT washed out as for E-6 type films.

With the demise of K, its an entirely new world out there for positive film users and any choice is going to be a personal preference and none of them will come close to the K look.

My personal preference will be to use the Fuji emulsions simple because I believe Fuji and the Japanese will be the key to how long positive color film survives.

For me, the demise of K will finally force me to make the change to digital because there simply is not an alternative to Kodachrome.-Dick

[adan]

K was inherently different as the color dyes were put IN during processing and NOT washed out as for E-6 type films.

 

"Washed out"? Uh, no.

 

E-6 does not "wash out" dyes - it CREATES them during development from chemicals (dye couplers, which are NOT dyes themselves) in the film combining with chemical by-products of silver development by the color developer. So does the Kodachrome process - the difference being that the dye couplers are in the developer rather than the film, and the three color layers are processed as three separate steps.

 

Which gave Kodachrome two advantages --- less "stuff" in the film to diffuse light during exposure, and different dye couplers could be used for each color, instead of "one-size-fits-all", which allowed the creation of more stable dyes. And, as you say, its own color palette.

 

(In both E-6 and K-14, the left-over COUPLER chemicals are indeed washed away by the end of the process, along with the silver, the fixer, and everything else not needed for the final image)

 

By comparison, the Cibachrome/Ilfochrome color print process really DOES "wash away" (with acidic bleach) dyes that come in the emulsion ready-made from the factory - but that process is nothing like E6.

_________________

 

As to whether Velvia "looks like" Kodachrome, I guess that depends on which Kodachromes one looked at. My impression or K'chrome - and the look I always wanted to achieve - was formed by seeing the works of:

 

Pete Turner: Pete Turner Photography

Ernst Haas: http://www.ernst-haas.com/colorGallery/america/handball.jpg http://webbnorriswebb.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/eh_venice1.jpg

Art Kane: http://damnuglyphotography.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/who.jpg

Eric Meola: http://www.doubleexposure.com/uploads/3_promised_land.jpg

 

and that is pretty much what I got from Velvia - at least the way I shot it.

[Doc Henry]

Right - "Kodachrome 64. Intense colors, sharpness and deep shadows."

 

For intense colors, sharpness and deep shadows, I'd have to vote for Velvia 50. As mentioned, it does not match the "classic" model of a studio portrait film, but your portraits have an edginess that Velvia might suit well. Personally, I liked it as a portrait film for intense documentary portraits.

 

Fuji intentionally designed the original Velvia (RVP) to go head-to-head against Kodachrome. The Velvias are pretty much the only E6 films that have a DMax (maximum density, "deep shadows") that comes close to K64. And Fuji designed in chemical "edge enhancement" effects to replicate the edge sharpness of K'chrome's dye-in-the-developer processing.

 

My feeling about E100G and Provia 100 is that they are really good "Ektachromes" - but quite different from Kodachrome. Just not the same intensity.

 

E100G with a stop of push-processing to boost the saturation and contrast slightly might be worth a look. Unfortunately, though, push processing tends to gray out the Dmax sometimes.

 

For the record - KODAK killed Kodachrome. Dwayne's is simply bowing to the fact that there will be no more film or chemicals forthcoming from Kodak, thus no way to continue offering processing.

Vicente,

I agree with Adan for Velvia 50 . I'll show you on the thread "Photo Forum"

With Provia, I also have some beautiful portraits

Henry

[Doc Henry]

I'm struggling to see how Velvia (especially 50) can be described as a Kodachrome alternative - assuming that 'alternative' means that the original poster is looking for something that looks like Kodachrome.

Steve,

I agree with you

Kodachrome will be always Kodachrome and Velvia will remain Fuji

But it is an alternative since Kodak stopped production

Henry

[stunsworth]

The problem I have with Velvia isn't the shadows or the sharpness, it's the colours. I find them dreadful. Obviously I'm in a minority of one <grin>.

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[adan]

Well, the thing with Kodachrome (although, again, this depends on WHICH Kodachrome) was that it could display several "characters". Expose it normally or a touch over (just hold the highlights) and it delivered pastel colors - shoot it a stop under, and one got the intense saturated colors that made a lot of money for the photographers noted above.

 

E100G is probably closest to the "normally-exposed vacation snapshot c. 1970" look

Velvia is closest to the "pros selling graphic images/Nat. Geo red shirt" look

 

For me, the other Fujis alway required an 81A filter welded to all my lenses - just too fishbelly "cold".