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A few months back, I asked about general tips for bw printing given my transition from film to digital. I've made a lot of progress in the interim...having fun making photos with my new M8, and loading into LR...and now getting ready to set up and use new Epson 3800.

 

Fortunately, I have a friend nearby who has equipment to set up paper profiles, etc. But, I'd like some more opinions on developing own profiles vs using RIPs. I just browsed though the DeWolfe book discussed in another recent thread, and he emphatically states that the ColorByte ImagePrint RIP is the "best in the business" for bw printing, if for no other reason than John Panazzo's profiles "are the best." And, he recommends against trying to do profiles on your own, regardless of equipment quality.

 

When I posted earlier, some (Bill Parsons, I think, and others) mentioned the Harrington Quad RIP as well. My search of this topic pulled up some old posts. Anyone have feedback/suggestions based on recent experience?

 

Also, I intend to do some color printing (unusual for me, given my bw film days)...and so I'm ignorant about use of RIPs...or not...for color work. Since DeWolfe's book is on bw only, I don't know what he or others suggest for color work. Same deal?

 

Thanks,

Jeff

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Jeff, the QUAD rip is for b/w, and I use this with Cone's CIS for the Epson 1400 and his profiles, with Hahnemuhle Rag paper in the thickest form.

 

I also use ImagePrint, with my Epson 2400, with Ilford color glossy paper. I'm very pleased with this,always getting the correct color balance the first time. That is to say, I don't do test prints, any more.

 

My monitor is a Sony 19" lcd and I use Huey Pro to calibrate it.

 

This all works very well with my pix and it is very easy to sit at my desk for long periods of time because of the thinness of my wallet.

 

Regards,

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Jeff, the QUAD rip is for b/w, and I use this with Cone's CIS for the Epson 1400 and his profiles, with Hahnemuhle Rag paper in the thickest form.

 

I also use ImagePrint, with my Epson 2400, with Ilford color glossy paper. I'm very pleased with this,always getting the correct color balance the first time. That is to say, I don't do test prints, any more.

 

My monitor is a Sony 19" lcd and I use Huey Pro to calibrate it.

 

This all works very well with my pix and it is very easy to sit at my desk for long periods of time because of the thinness of my wallet.

 

Regards,

 

Thanks, Bill...you're very kind to follow up again. Is there a specific reason why you use each RIP?...the ImagePrint was recommended for bw. Or is it more a printer than color/bw issue?

 

FWIW, I'm using a NEC 24" monitor with Spectravision built in...going to the Epson 3800 (hence a much thinner wallet for me:().

 

Jeff

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Jeff, I can highly reccommend the Epson 3800 for printing colour and B&W. I seriously also reccommend Qimage as a printing platform in preference to any RIP. My reasoning is as follows.

 

I have spent 50+ years in darkrooms processing both B&W and colour, with zero outside assistance. I set and develop high satandards. When going didital I was bitterly dissapointed with the quality I could achieve compared with analog. After eight years of fighting with different RIP's and inks and papers and ........... :eek:

 

ImagePrint is an excellent software package, but soooo expensive unless you are generation a lot of money with it. I tried Superprint 2000 (I think that was the name!) and it did most of the things things that IP does, for a lot less $$'s. Best of all, I found Qimage. It has a free trial download with three levels of cost & funtion. Even the lowest function/cost is excellent (About $40 I recall). After trialling it for 1 week I paid to go straight to the top version. Brilliant. Easy, accurate and cheap (under $100 for the top version).

 

My test with the Epson 3800 was to scan a B&W negative and take the file to the showroom and say. Print that perfectly first time and I will buy the machine on the spot. I didn't tell them it was B&W. :D

 

The machine spat out a perfect print and said: "now what would you like?" I bought it on the spot. Incidently, that print was made direct through Photoshop. But Qimage is sooo much more flexible. Does every thing IP does and more IMHO. Qualification: I haven't looked at IP for a couple of years now, and at that price I don't need to.

 

Jeff, since you have the Ep3800 already, assuming you have a calibrated monitor, you should get perfect prints straight up without any extra software. The print software mainly streamlines and smooths the workflow.

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Jeff, I can highly reccommend the Epson 3800 for printing colour and B&W. I seriously also reccommend Qimage as a printing platform in preference to any RIP. My reasoning is as follows.

 

I have spent 50+ years in darkrooms processing both B&W and colour, with zero outside assistance. I set and develop high satandards. When going didital I was bitterly dissapointed with the quality I could achieve compared with analog. After eight years of fighting with different RIP's and inks and papers and ........... :eek:

 

ImagePrint is an excellent software package, but soooo expensive unless you are generation a lot of money with it. I tried Superprint 2000 (I think that was the name!) and it did most of the things things that IP does, for a lot less $$'s. Best of all, I found Qimage. It has a free trial download with three levels of cost & funtion. Even the lowest function/cost is excellent (About $40 I recall). After trialling it for 1 week I paid to go straight to the top version. Brilliant. Easy, accurate and cheap (under $100 for the top version).

 

My test with the Epson 3800 was to scan a B&W negative and take the file to the showroom and say. Print that perfectly first time and I will buy the machine on the spot. I didn't tell them it was B&W. :D

 

The machine spat out a perfect print and said: "now what would you like?" I bought it on the spot. Incidently, that print was made direct through Photoshop. But Qimage is sooo much more flexible. Does every thing IP does and more IMHO. Qualification: I haven't looked at IP for a couple of years now, and at that price I don't need to.

 

Jeff, since you have the Ep3800 already, assuming you have a calibrated monitor, you should get perfect prints straight up without any extra software. The print software mainly streamlines and smooths the workflow.

 

Thanks, Erl...I appreciate all the background and recommendations. Since I posted, I learned that my photo buddy is coming to town tomorrow and is going to get my printer up and running. He initially recommended the 3800 (along with many others on this forum), but told me that I didn't need a RIP (possibly to streamline things as I got started?...possibly because he thinks it will print just as well without?...I'll have to get his clarification).

 

What prompted my post was the blurb in the DeWolfe book about the benefits of the paper profiles packaged with the IP RIP (I didn't know IP cost so much). Maybe I don't need any additional software to get good profiles beyond those that my friend plans to set up for me using his equipment (which also isn't cheap, if I ever decide to buy what he has).

 

I was under the impression that paper profiling is not easy, regardless of printer...but maybe that's just not so. I just know that I want to try different papers over time, and don't want to rely on my friend's assistance every time.

 

I'll ask him about Qimage as well, and see if he has any familiarity with it. Does it help with profiles on a wide variety of papers? In any event, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

Jeff

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IMO you'd be wise to follow your friend's advice. Printer drivers have mostly caught up with what RIPs can do, & you can learn a lot just using the 3800's own BW mode & Epson's own profiles.

 

When you climb well atop the learning curve, you may want to use a RIP or different software; but wait til you're up there & can judge just what differences you're looking for.

 

Kirk

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IMO you'd be wise to follow your friend's advice. Printer drivers have mostly caught up with what RIPs can do, & you can learn a lot just using the 3800's own BW mode & Epson's own profiles.

 

When you climb well atop the learning curve, you may want to use a RIP or different software; but wait til you're up there & can judge just what differences you're looking for.

 

Kirk

 

I think that's the path I'll take, and I suspect I'll look back on this as very wise counsel. Thanks very much for the input, Kirk. In many ways, I'm thrilled to be learning all kinds of new stuff...literally every day...as I plow into the digital realm. In other ways, I feel like I've regressed 30 years and don't enjoy being a newbie again:(

 

The good news is that I still get the same excitement out there shooting...and know it's only a matter of time when I'll be happy with the printed results. (But, now at least I get immediate endorphins just loading my day's work onto a lovely screen...with no harsh chemicals involved):D

 

Jeff

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I'm going to agree with most of the input here, even though I only print through ImagePrint and make my own custom profiles.

 

The newest Epson drivers are just fine for colour and BW on most papers. ImagePrint, if you're doing volume, or being very finicky about tonality, or ink limiting, or want to use non-standard papers, is a blessing.

 

IOW, for non-high-volume use, the Epson driver or Qimage will get you most of the way there, which is more than good enough for many people. RIPs will get you, with a lot of time and initial expense, to the last 5% :)

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I'm going to agree with most of the input here, even though I only print through ImagePrint and make my own custom profiles.

 

The newest Epson drivers are just fine for colour and BW on most papers. ImagePrint, if you're doing volume, or being very finicky about tonality, or ink limiting, or want to use non-standard papers, is a blessing.

 

IOW, for non-high-volume use, the Epson driver or Qimage will get you most of the way there, which is more than good enough for many people. RIPs will get you, with a lot of time and initial expense, to the last 5% :)

 

Thanks, Jamie. I'm curious to see how my friend initially sets me up. I know he has an xrite eye-one device that costs about $1500 (as much as a printer!), which he plans to use. (I didn't buy one on my own, although he said one is needed for his purposes.)

 

I don't know if this means he'll set custom profiles, or if he'll use the Epson's. He doesn't do volume...nor do I...but I know we both aim for the best quality (as we did in the film world). Guess I'll find out tomorrow...oops, it's just past midnight...make that today.

 

Jeff

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Jeff, I've just setup a 3800 to replace my old Canon i9950. I've always used a colour managed workflow but never had a need for RIP.

 

Anyway you may already know about Eric Chan's website regarding the 3800, he also has a page of ICC profiles for ABW printing on various paper types such as Ilford Gold Fiber Silk or various Hahnemuhle papers. Anyway it's well worth a read ICC Profiles for the Epson 3800 Advanced B&W Photo Driver and also the methodology on using ABW in a workflow Epson 3800 Step-By-Step Printing Workflow

 

I've been playing with Eric's profiles and find them very good for the papers I use.

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Jeff, I've just setup a 3800 to replace my old Canon i9950. I've always used a colour managed workflow but never had a need for RIP.

 

Anyway you may already know about Eric Chan's website regarding the 3800, he also has a page of ICC profiles for ABW printing on various paper types such as Ilford Gold Fiber Silk or various Hahnemuhle papers. Anyway it's well worth a read ICC Profiles for the Epson 3800 Advanced B&W Photo Driver and also the methodology on using ABW in a workflow Epson 3800 Step-By-Step Printing Workflow

 

I've been playing with Eric's profiles and find them very good for the papers I use.

 

 

Thanks....I was not familiar with Eric, but perhaps my photo bud is. He's due to arrive shortly to help get my printer set up. Coincidentally, the 2 paper types you mention...Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, and Hahnemuhle (photo rag pearl)...are 2 he plans to help me profile. I also got some Epson Exhibition Fiber paper with my printer rebate...will also explore that.

 

I appreciate the links you've given me...very timely.

 

Jeff

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