Voigtlander lenses with M8

[jlancasterd]

I'm considering the purchase of an M8 for wide angle work (I have an R8 and DMR for the longer focal lengths). However, I will be unable to afford the new 16-18-21 Tri-Elmar as well, or even a S/H 28-35-50 (at least not initially). I'm therefore wondering about buying the Voigtlander Ultron 28mm F1.9 as a stop gap - possibly in conjunction with one of the cheap and cheerful uncoupled 15mm Voigtlander lenses for extreme W/A work in confined spaces.

I'd be interested to hear what anyone who has used the Ultron 28mm thinks of the quality and handling of this lens on an M body - it appears to be quite big and presumably intrudes into the viewfinder - is this a problem?

[stunsworth]

Hi John, I have this lens - it's f1.9 by the way, not f1.7, and it's excellent value for money. Yes it's big, but I've never found it to be too big on an M6.

Quality is also excellent. The Leica 28mm Summicron is probably sharper - especially wide open and in the corners - but I don't think you'll be disppointed with the Voigtlander.

[christoph_d]

Hi John,

If I were you I might wait until more is known about the 2.8/28 Elmarit M. At the announced price, and judging from existing M-lenses it cold be excellent value for money.

Regards, C.

[jlancasterd]

Originally Posted by christoph_d

Hi John,

If I were you I might wait until more is known about the 2.8/28 Elmarit M. At the announced price, and judging from existing M-lenses it cold be excellent value for money.

Regards, C.

There's a pretty big price differential between the Ultron (£365 in bayonet form) and the new Elmarit (£920) - especially for what will be essentially a second-choice purchase.

[rvaubel]

I have both the 28/1.9 Nokton and the 15/4.5 Heliar. Your can't go wrong with this combination if you prefer the wide end of life. Another more middle of the road approach would be to substitute the 40/1.4 for the 15mm. That would give you a more traditional range. In any case, the 28mm is a solid anchor. It's almost as good as the Summicron at 1/5th the price.

Rex

[sean_reid]

The 28/1.9 Ultron is one of my favorite lenses and I've shot a lot of professional work with it. I suspect that it will do very well on the M8.

Cheers,

Sean

[steve_l]

Whoops, hit the wrong key...

The Voigtlander 12 vignettes a lot less than the 15 and is really an 18 on the R-D1 I use it a lot on mine!

Now that I'll soon have the new Tri-Elmar and an M8 with lower lens multiplier I'll soon sell my 12, but it is perfect for the R-D1....

-Steve
slipsey@alum.mit.edu

[Pekoretty]

Originally Posted by steve_l

Now that I'll soon have the new Tri-Elmar and an M8 with lower lens multiplier I'll soon sell my 12, but it is perfect for the R-D1....

-Steve
slipsey@alum.mit.edu

Personally I believe the Tri-Elmar is a "crazy" lens.... It costs a lot, have a "zoom" range that could be defined as "ridicolous" (1.3x!!) and, in addition, is all but fast with a "sad" f/4... should not be Leica an available light tool? at f/4? f/4 could be reasonable for some uses, but for a fraction of the price of the Tri-Elmar!!

Why don't you buy an Elmarit 21/2.8 instead and keep the 12 Voigt for extreme shooting?

Elio

[steve_l]

Pekoretty - Thanks for the suggestion, but...I already have the Elmarit 21 f2.8 - but that will only be a 28 on the M8. Not really wide at all, these days. Or really fast. Or usable with built-in frame lines, useful for low-light work (wide open and needing to be focussed), so I'll sell it when the tri-elmar is available.

I've been using Canon 1D/1Ds for digital for a few years (yes, after 25 years of Leica I did briefly go to the dark side, but I'm back now that Leica is here) and got used to the superwides (16-35 zoom) and all-around (24-70 zoom), so the tri-elmar (16-21) will be right in that sweet spot, when combined with the old tri-elmar for longer focal lengths (28-50).

the Voigtlander 12 will be an actual 16, a bit wide for me usually (on my R-D1 it is an 18, just barely controllable)

and f4 is fine now - at least, f4 at ISO 2500 will beat tri-x at 400, which is all we used to have. I'll probably get a 28 f2 (widest lens with faster f-stop) for really low-light work.

I just accompanied the American Repertory Theatre, Cambridge MA to the Edinburgh Theatre Festival as "backstage" photographer (exhibit will be at ART in December). Shot nearly all at 1600 (or higher) with the R-D1 with the 21 f2.8 (www.stevelipsey.com/threesisters), . It seemed like f4 at 2500 would have been fine also, but I would have liked an extra stop in some places, so I'll get an f2 lens for backup.

I used to use only the 35 f1.4 with film, but sadly, the 1.33 multiplier takes that out of the picture now....so there is no f1.4 option. but f2 is a lot better than f2.8

[cbretteville]

Steve's link is broken due to the additional trailing paranthesis - actually it's the board sw that has a bug. Anyway, use this: Photographs

- C

[steve_l]

Wow, thanks, Carl! Not to just point out the error, but you actually fix it also!!!

[steve_l]

Back to the topic of this thread...I am thinking about the Voigtlander 28 1.9 for low light, but for use primarily wide open, I suspect the Leica 28 2.0 would be noticeably better - in Sean's review of these lenses he tests at f4 and there is already a significant difference in the corners (although the centers are very similar)...anybody have experience here?

[albertwang]

I use the 35mm f2.5 pancake on my M6 and the images are rather wonderful. The camera is wonderfully compact too!

[steve_l]

Hmmm....I wonder....Voigtlander lenses supposedly cover a slightly narrower FOV than Leica lenses of the same focal length (I read that here somewhere....)....I wonder if the Voigtlander 21 frame would fit in the M8 window, even though the Leica 21 frame is slightly too big?

Anyone have any experience with Leica vs. Voigtlander angles of view for similar lenses?

[sean_reid]

I can't get into detail with this but some lenses may actually perform better in the corners on the M8 than they do on the R-D1. That may sound counter-intuitive but sensor size is only one of many variables in the equation. I'll be testing the various 28s on the M8 for an article but obviously that won't be out right away.

For someone who wants to get a 28 right now, there is the option of just buying a 28/1.9 and trying it on the M8. If he or she is not happy, sell the lens. It's fairly inexpensive and should hold it's value pretty well. My favorite lenses from CV are:

28/1.9 Ultron
35/2.5 Pancake II
50/1.5 Nokton

I have a hunch that all three will do very well on the M8 but I can't say anything definitive until I've done the comparative testing. I own all three.

How does the 28 Ultron do wide open? I shoot that lens wide open for assignments all the time on the R-D1 and it's great. I love it.

Naturally, it will also be interesting to see how the CV 12 and 15 do on the M8. On the R-D1, the 12 vignettes far less than the 15.

Cheers,

Sean

[sean_reid]

Originally Posted by steve_l

Hmmm....I wonder....Voigtlander lenses supposedly cover a slightly narrower FOV than Leica lenses of the same focal length (I read that here somewhere....)....I wonder if the Voigtlander 21 frame would fit in the M8 window, even though the Leica 21 frame is slightly too big?

Anyone have any experience with Leica vs. Voigtlander angles of view for similar lenses?

Hi Steve,

It depends on the specific lens and the focus distance. Many times, at longer focus distances, the Zeiss ZMs run a bit wider than the Leicas and the CVs run a little narrower. But that doesn't generalize to all lenses from any of those manufacturers or to all focus distances. I can't even remember which do what at which distance but if you look over my newer tests of the 21s, 24/25s and 50s, you can get a better idea of this. It's probably in the text and will also be clear in the examples.

Cheers,

Sean

[sean_reid]

Just took a look at my own reviews again.

24/25s - At a focus distance about three feet, the Leica is indeed wider than the Zeiss. That might seem obvious from the focal lengths but sometimes things aren't as they would have seemed.

21s - At a focus distance about ten feet, the Zeiss runs wider than the Leica.

50s - At a focus distance about five feet the Zeiss 50/2.0 runs wider than the CV 50/1.5 which in turn runs wider than the Leica 50/2.0

Cheers,

Sean

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by sean_reid

I can't get into detail with this but some lenses may actually perform better in the corners on the M8 than they do on the R-D1. That may sound counter-intuitive but sensor size is only one of many variables in the equation.

Cheers,

Sean

Sean,
Kodak has now posted the long specs PDF on the KAF-10500 sensor. There is a graph of the angle response that is quite interesting, especially if you compare it to the graph for the KAF-10010 (DMR). The Kodak link is KODAK Image Sensor Solutions - CMOS, CCD, full frame, interline, linear image sensors
Bob

[vic vic]

steve - why bother yourslef about which one is narrower and which is wider...

sean.. u make rviews... do u recognize the effect imidiatle, or it takes a few seconds to realize it when the pics are side by side???? is there such a big differance???

dont know - maybe there is - so my excuses... summilxu / nocton 50.. well - i wouldnt mind about that differance... there are other more important differances...
25 voigtlander snap skopar... i dont have my own 24 leica - so dont really knwo...
etc...

u buy leica cause it is best...
u buy vouigtlander cause u dont have moeny or dont need such expenssive particular lens but u can trust it, it is really good. u buy zeiss - i odnt know why to buy it :-))) sean and puts say that they have different fingerprints... well, i beleive them and from discriptions i can imagine what they mean, so if u like it or tasted it - buy it and not leica or voigtlander :-))))))))

but if u r bothered about 24 is wide enough or not.... well dont compare between the brands - just get one of the 21mm :-)))) this is what im gona do if/when buy m8 and 28/25 i have not enough :-))))

[stefanschulze]

Could i use my 35mm & 40mm Nokton on the M8? What frameline-set will show up in the finder when i use the 40mm?
Stefan