efftee Posted July 18, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 18, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) From what I know, there are 4 different f/1.0 versions of the Noctilux -- v1 is the only 58m filter size, the rest takes 60mm; v2 and v3 both sport detachable hoods differentiated by the latter attached by spring clips; and v4 has the affixed hood. My question is - are the optics of the 4 versions identical, ie do they draw the same? Sorry if I am posting this in the wrong place. Thanks in advance for your answers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 Hi efftee, Take a look here Noctilux f/1.0. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
yanidel Posted July 18, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 18, 2009 My question is - are the optics of the 4 versions identical, ie do they draw the same? Sorry if I am posting this in the wrong place. Thanks in advance for your answers. Modify the question to : "do they draw the same on the M8?" and you have a chance that the thread won't be moved Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted July 18, 2009 Share #3 Posted July 18, 2009 That is actually a great question for the lens-geeks out there... I have been trying to figure out which of the Noctilux compares closes to the Nokton 1.1 Im not saying that the Noct betters any noct, just wondering if the older Nocts might be closer to the Noct's look than the latest versions. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 19, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 19, 2009 Older Nocts do probably have coatings that are slightly different from those on the late specimens. Then the optics: It is an open secret that the computations of current lenses are sometimes adjusted slightly, i.e. without a change in optical design as such. The reason can be that a glass ceases to be available and has to replaced, or that the change makes production easier. Those recomputed variants are normally not counted as different versions, unless the performance would change appreciably -- but the reason for the recomputation is usually to preserve the existing performance, not to change it. Mechanical changes of the mount are really not different 'versions', at least not optical ones. A change of mechanical components pure and simple does not in itself affect optical performance. Mounting changes have often given rise to myths about optical improvements that are supposed to accompany them. There are even myths that credit a change of finish with making a lens sharper, or whatever! But myths is what this is, unless of course there is a change of coating type, when better techniques become available. It is a fair guess that coatings have improved during the long life of the 1:1 Noctilux. The optical design has never been changed however. Nobody has noticed any quantum leap in performance due to a (hypothetical) recomputation. So, optically, there is just one Noctilux 1:1. Sorry if you find this answer a bit long-winded, but there is a lot of confusion around about what a 'version' is. Much of this confusion arises because Leitz/Leica keep the name of the lens even if it is drastically redesigned. So people ask themselves, is it new, or is it old? If there is an 'ASPH' tacked to the name of a new edition, it IS of course a new design ... until the next ASPH version arrives, which may happen soon. The old man from the Age of the Slide Rule Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted July 19, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 19, 2009 Thank you Lars, I would have guessed that there would have been 2-3 revisions of the Noct, guess the only real revision might be the latest 0.95 version. And I think I will hop on a plane and spend another month in Africa before getting a 0.95 noct. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 19, 2009 Share #6 Posted July 19, 2009 Thank you Lars, I would have guessed that there would have been 2-3 revisions of the Noct, guess the only real revision might be the latest 0.95 version. And I think I will hop on a plane and spend another month in Africa before getting a 0.95 noct. . This is not a revision, it is a completely new optical design. And because the speed has increased, it is not even a new version -- it is a new lens! The old man from the Age of Revisionism Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 19, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 19, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you Lars, I would have guessed that there would have been 2-3 revisions of the Noct, guess the only real revision might be the latest 0.95 version. And I think I will hop on a plane and spend another month in Africa before getting a 0.95 noct. . Surely during the 1,0 lifecycle there had been some revisions which "touched" the optics too (coating and glass formulas, as said above) : the only thing I can say is that time ago I spoke with an Italian collector that, admittedly for a sort of private craziness, has a total of 16 Noctiluxes f1... he told me that SMALL differences in rendering can be spotted, expecially in highly contrasted scenes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted July 19, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 19, 2009 an Italian collector that, admittedly for a sort of private craziness, has a total of 16 Noctiluxes f1. I hope he continues this excellent work by amassing the corresponding collection of f/0.95s! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 19, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 19, 2009 I hope he continues this excellent work by amassing the corresponding collection of f/0.95s! When I spoke to him, he was of course WAITING FOR... but seemed to me he ordered 1 only... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted July 19, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 19, 2009 I understand that they are supposed to be optically identical but with different coatings. I don't think they render differently in any significant way but of course there may be sample variation between different lenses. I've used an E58 for a few years, that version is supposed to vignette more than the later versions but I don't see it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 19, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 19, 2009 This is a field where many people imagine a lot ... and they are helped by the fact that there is always individual variation between specimens, even specimens with two consecutive serial numbers, as long as you search sufficiently diligently for it! There are statistical procedures for assessing such data point variation. They are used when preparing scientific evidence, such as experimental results. It goes without saying that the 'evidence' in our case, or should we say 'the claims', is anectodal and would be thrown out of even the most elementary seminar. It's on the approximate level of cold fusion, or unicorns in the woods. You have to present evidence of systematic variation across a reasonably large sample in order to be taken seriously in scientific venues. The old man from the Age of Factual Evidence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted August 9, 2009 Share #12 Posted August 9, 2009 Used Noctilux f1 prices have escalated and now in UK they are offered by dealers at prices well over £3K and currently there are two on offer at over £4K. However, if anyone is looking for a more reasonable price Ffordes are offering one at £2699 - but not clear if it has a hood. Cheers dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicashot Posted August 10, 2009 Share #13 Posted August 10, 2009 I've owned the E58 and latest E60 with built in hood, and I saw no differences, but I suspect lens coatings might have changed, but can't be sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
efftee Posted August 10, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted August 10, 2009 Thanks for all your feedback. This thread was moved and I couldn't find it for the longest time! I thought it was deleted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maddoc2003jp Posted August 10, 2009 Share #15 Posted August 10, 2009 To my understanding both, the 50/1.0 and 75/1.4, have at least one element made form glass with a very high refractive index that was specially made for these lenses and only in limited amount. So an optical re-design would have been quite difficult and time-consuming. IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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