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Super-Elmar shots


spylaw4

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A couple of detail shots of the new Super-Elmar showing the lens. In practice it feels not a lot larger than the 24mm. There's a shot without hood showing the front element protruding. It seems that on the M8 the UV/IR filter will screw on first then the lens hood in turn is screwed on.

 

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Red Dot Cameras will have one on demo on Thursday, Friday, Saturday this week (5-7 March)

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No red-anodised thread to warn you on this lens, looks like they have gone for a red rubber ring instead. The ring is there to grip the hood/IR filter as it is screwed on to the front of the lens.

 

I expect the special IR filter will have a female thread in the back to screw onto the front of the lens and a male thread and red rubber ring at the front for the lens hood to screw on to it. Exactly the same as the Milich adapter except the rings are black.

 

Nicely compact though, isn't it?

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Looks similar to the WATE in this protruding lens element. Vulnurable, indeed. One have to use a sunshade or filter all the time. Do you have pictures of this lens with the UV/IR filter?

 

No sample filter as yet.

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Hmm. If it is possible to screw on the IR filter without having to use the lens hood, I withdraw my "dealbreaker" comments on the original 18 SE thread.

 

Assuming the filter is flat, and not domed to match the lens element (which last I doubt since it would introduce optical issues), then the filter ring must be rather deep (5 to 8mm), and provide its own protection for the lens.

 

It looks to me as though it would be possible to machine an adapter ring to use 60mm filters for film use (60mm being a Leica size, ex 75 f/1.4 and pre-ASPH 21 f/2.8) without vignetting.

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Andy, the diameter of the filter required varies with the tangent of the angle of view (half angle IIRC) and is critically dependent on how close the filter can be made to sit in front of the front lens element to minimise the distance to the entrance pupil which is 19.6mm behind the front lens surface.

 

The filter holder has to be large enough diameter so that the wost case filter (in terms of how far forwards it sits) does not vignette. With the special IR filter, Leica can sit the filter very close to the front lens element to minimise the diameter required, which is exactly what John did with the WATE adapter to get it to fit the external diameter of the lens.

 

I'll dig out the spreadsheet I did at the time to calculate the minimum filter diameter required in relation to the clearance in front of the lens. It may show, in answer to the question I posed elsewhere, that the special IR filter will work with cropped cameras only.

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Hi Mark. I've been using filters on super-wides since the 20mm Canon in 1977, so I do understand the issues.

 

And yes the idea would be an adapter such that a mounted filter JUST clears the front element.

 

But a 60mm may be too ambitious - the lens at its widest (the edge of the bell just behind the red ring) is 61mm (just as a reference for size) so it might require 67mm filters - still more compact than 77mm.

 

Some here may not know or remember - since the issue arose a decade ago - but when Leica introduced the 90 APO M there were problems with slim-line filters (B+W I believe, or maybe Hoya) hitting the front element when mounted. Leica had designed the spacing to just exactly match the thicker Leica filter ring, without allowing for non-Leica filter mounts.

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AndyBarton: Not sure I understand the question.

 

I guess if you're shooting film/no filter - you use the lenshood for physical protection

 

On the M8, if you don't want a filter - buy the IR filter, knock out the glass, and just use the ring. Or use the hood.

 

On careful consideration, I've decided the 18 SE just doesn't get there for me. Not enough wider than my 21 to give up the f/2.8 aperture, and not enough faster than my 15mm to give up the extra wideness.

 

Nice engineering, nice price - an excellent lens for many, no doubt, especially if you already have a 28/75 combo.

 

But I'll wait for a 16mm/18mm Super-Elmarit, or a 16mm Super-Elmar f/3.4 (not 3.8), or a full-frame body, and alternate between the 21 and 15 as light levels and FOV dictate in the meantime.

Edited by adan
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I have an Elmarit-R 19mm, with a similarly vulnerable front element, and there's no way I would want to use a lens like this without a filter. The ruined front element on the 19 is testament to how vulnerable this kind of design really is, and I look after my stuff because I pay for it myself, earn nothing from it, and don't get any tax breaks. However, not everyone is going to need an IR one, and some people don't like to use filters at all.

 

Are Leica also going to make plain-jane UVs of the correct size and spec?

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I have an Elmarit-R 19mm, with a similarly vulnerable front element, and there's no way I would want to use a lens like this without a filter. The ruined front element on the 19 is testament to how vulnerable this kind of design really is, and I look after my stuff because I pay for it myself, earn nothing from it, and don't get any tax breaks. However, not everyone is going to need an IR one, and some people don't like to use filters at all.

 

Are Leica also going to make plain-jane UVs of the correct size and spec?

 

On the Leica homepage you find the follwing announcement:

 

"Filter Holder. For compatibility with other filters there is the accessory holder for E77 filters, which is mounted where you would normally secure the lens hood (item no. 14 484)."

 

Which raises the question whether you can use the E77-Filters and a lens hood on top.

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Which raises the question whether you can use the E77-Filters and a lens hood on top.

 

I'm sure you can use a 77mm lens hood screwed into the filter screwed into the adapter screwed on to the lens, but not the standard hood which, like the WATE, will be redundant if you use the filter adapter.

 

If you look at the cross section of the lens, the front is flared apparently just to allow a large enough hood (plus IR filter for M8 use) to be attached to the front. The optics themselves do not require the diameter at the front to be as large (61mm).

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I don't know if the attached is any help - but in an attempt to clarify matters (with apologies and thanks to Leica) this is what the SE instructions say. Your interpretation may differ as I personally find the (presumed) translation somewhat confusing. I don't have a copy of the original German BTW.

 

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Brian, this is clear as the day. There will be a special UV/IR filter for cropped-sensor M cameras, one with a rim deep enough to make the filter glass clear the front element, when the filter is screwed onto the male/outside lens thread for the hood or adapter, meaning that that end of the rim will have a female/inside thread. The other end of the rim will have an outside thread identical to that of the lens, which will take the standard hood. And what will happen if we get a FF digital M that needs an IR filter? THAT is less clear ...

 

I am looking forward to some pictures of the different combinations. Pictures of the naked lens alone do clearly not tell us much about what the rig will be like in real life.

 

The old man from the Age of 58mm 486 Filters

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Lars, the M8 bit is perfectly clear - I"m just not quite sure about the use of the hood with filters on other M's. If the weather is half-decent and I have time I'll try to get a few sample shots with it - but don't bank on it!

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I don't see the problem. The sensor format has no influence on the way one fixes the filter. So the same system will be usable as for the M8.

 

The difference in format means a difference in field of view. On film or a full-frame sensor, the screw-on filter (UV/IR) will vignette - showing up in the corner of the pictures as dark cutoff areas.

 

Spylaw can read us the actual angles of view from his 18mm instruction book. But on an M8 the 18 covers roughly 80-some degrees diagonally - on 24 x 36 it sees 104 degrees. That's enough difference to make the M8-IR filter-mount method unworkable for film/"M9" use.

 

As an example - I can use a 39mm filter with my C/V 15mm ON THE M8 by just press-fitting it into the built-in lens hood. That same "way of fixing the filter" cannot work for film or a hypothetical 24 x 36 digital M with that lens, because the filter shows up in the corners of the wider "15mm" picture.

 

Sensor format has a BIG influence on the way one fixes the filter - if one wants the most compact setup for the format chosen.

 

If one is happy with 77mm filters, then one can use the same system for filtering either an M8 or a film M. Good luck seeing through the rangefinder, however.

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The difference in format means a difference in field of view. On film or a full-frame sensor, the screw-on filter (UV/IR) will vignette - showing up in the corner of the pictures as dark cutoff areas.

 

Spylaw can read us the actual angles of view from his 18mm instruction book. But on an M8 the 18 covers roughly 80-some degrees diagonally - on 24 x 36 it sees 104 degrees. That's enough difference to make the M8-IR filter-mount method unworkable for film/"M9" use.

 

As an example - I can use a 39mm filter with my C/V 15mm ON THE M8 by just press-fitting it into the built-in lens hood. That same "way of fixing the filter" cannot work for film or a hypothetical 24 x 36 digital M with that lens, because the filter shows up in the corners of the wider "15mm" picture.

 

Sensor format has a BIG influence on the way one fixes the filter - if one wants the most compact setup for the format chosen.

 

If one is happy with 77mm filters, then one can use the same system for filtering either an M8 or a film M. Good luck seeing through the rangefinder, however.

 

Actually it's not my instruction book adan, - but I have now got the information:

given in order diagonal/horizontal/vertical in degrees:

Angle of view 35mm f/s:100/90/67

Angle of view M8: 84/74/53.

 

Hope that helps.

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