Why would an M7 user get an M8?

[Guest Seb V]

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Here's a question for all you more digital-literate people out there. I am very intersted in the M8 because I think that it will enable me to do exactly what I can do with my M7 except when I come home I just plug it into my Mac and voila - there are all the pictures I just took.

Is it really that simple? I do very little with PS Elements excep resize for web posting and sometimes contrast adjustment but that's it and that's the way I like it.

Will getting the M8 mean I will have to stare at a computer screen meticulously adjusting each shot?

Currently I send my film to a pro-lab who do what they call 'Machine Prints.' These are processed automatically but, I believe, a technician does monotor the results as they get printed. I am really happy with my results.

I guess what I really want to ask is...will plugging the M8 into my computer give me images just like the ones I get from the lab (obviously not printed) or will I have to become involved with PS?

The problem is, when I read about histograms and RGB settings etc. I just get nervous and think it will force me to get into the technical side of things to which I have a huge aversion.

Ideally, I would like to edit with the M8 and Apple and then take the 2 or 3 keepers I usually get per roll and get them printed at the lab. Is that viable?

 

I look forward to comments.

 

Regrds Seb

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[atournas]

You may have to get involved in some photoshop-like image manipulation.

 

However, the REAL question you have raised is perfectly described by the title in your post. I've been using D1 and D2 since practically they first appeared in the market, but for my serious attempts I am constantly a classic-M6 / MP user. So, please, allow me to make your question a bit more vivid:

 

- Why would an M6 or MP user get an M8?

 

Paul

[Sandokan]

Seb,

 

I look forward to the answers - I also fear that with a DMR I would have to get my screen colour calibrated, then calibrate a colour printer (after buying one), then spend ages with an image before deciding it is not a keeper.

 

Currently like you, I send them to a good lab, look at the prints and then work on the images that I like.

 

I actually dont want a M8 because of the crop factor changing the lens focal lengths, but could live with a DMR because of the zoom lenses giving me exactly the view I expect with only a small change. The other reason is that the M8 is the motorway that on the way to Glasgow takes you past Ruchazie and Easterhouse ... yuk!

[stunsworth]

Ideally, I would like to edit with the M8 and Apple and then take the 2 or 3 keepers I usually get per roll and get them printed at the lab. Is that viable?

 

Seb, that's totally viable and is what I do currently.

 

I store almost every shot, but only print the ones that interest me. I use a combination of iView Media Pro and Photosop CS2 to handle the cataloging and manipulation. I save a lot of time compared to scanning and printing film images.

 

My other suggestion would be to shoot RAW.

[rob_x2004]

7500-3500/9=444rolls developedREALA for me. Probably over a thousand rolls of APX, my time bulk loading and developing is cheap.

I like the look of film. I don't absolutely need the convenience of digital. If it was important that I had to make the shot regardless of all else, I would probably be shooting autofocus programme mode.

So an MP is really looking the money.

[KevinA]

If you are happy with how things work for you now, stick with the M7.

Going digital you do tend to get a lot of new technology between you and the finished picture. From a pro point of view the market is geared up to handle and expect digital files.I'm starting to think film is like a drive in the country compared to digitals high speed dash on a crowded motorway.

I think high end digital produces technicaly better images, but so what, if you are shooting for fun with your own style stick with what you know.

Or buy a cheap digital and see if you like the process, as for calibrating your monitor, the simple cheap way is with online printers like Photobox in the UK. They send you a target chart, which is also shown on their site, you just fiddle your screen to match. Plus if you want a print you upload it to their site and it turns up next day. I just had them do a 20x30 inches for me, I'm very impressed with them, both for quality of print and speedy service. Much quicker than me taking it to my local pro lab and it's printed on the same machinery.

So much cheaper than doing it yourself and the quality is as good as you can get from what you produce, there is no need to have your own printer if you don't want to.

 

 

Kevin.

[moikle]

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I bought a Canon 5D because I am unable to accept the multiplier compromise. The 5D largely sits in its bag unused as I get no stimulation from its output as sharp and perfect as it is. My M7 will be with me for a while longer yet as I just enjoy the experience, the anticipation, the processing even the scanning of film. I can hear the total "digitalites" gasping with incredulity now, but guys, it's what I want!

 

Mike

[vic vic]

sebastian...

isnt it better to buy for yourself the digilux camera then the m8. sorry, whats the point using the m8 without being able to get from it what it offers (i suppose at least that it offers much more than jpeg).

using such a tool, u need to study digital processing with RAW. seriously, otherwise u simply do nothing much with this camera in terms of quality of sensor, and surely the lenses.

 

sorry, just as it is with m7 or mp, or any other serious film camera - u dont do automatic lab prints with those. serious darkroom (b/w, ilforchrom or good negative print), or high quality scanning, and then u will see why leica (or hassy etc) are such a great tools when u know to use them for making photographs. just the same with the m8 (i suppose) or any high end digi back on medium format. study RAW RAW RAW RAW.

[Guest stnami]

It's all not that technical just learn to trust your eye and digital is a piece of cake

 

Seve "I store almost every shot" you must be crazy or very good to have so many keepers, see you in 10 years ........ a lota space to keep digital

[Guest Seb V]

sebastian...

isnt it better to buy for yourself the digilux camera then the m8. sorry, whats the point using the m8 without being able to get from it what it offers (i suppose at least that it offers much more than jpeg).

using such a tool, u need to study digital processing with RAW. seriously, otherwise u simply do nothing much with this camera in terms of quality of sensor, and surely the lenses.

 

sorry, just as it is with m7 or mp, or any other serious film camera - u dont do automatic lab prints with those. serious darkroom (b/w, ilforchrom or good negative print), or high quality scanning, and then u will see why leica (or hassy etc) are such a great tools when u know to use them for making photographs. just the same with the m8 (i suppose) or any high end digi back on medium format. study RAW RAW RAW RAW.

 

Sorry Vic, but I take exception to that quote. I can't help detecting a high high degree of condecension in the tone of your post. My pro lab does vey well by me thanks and to suggest that I have yet to appreciate why Leicas are such great tools is a bit much.

There are plenty of pro photographers - I know several very highly regarded fashion ones who wouldn't go anywhere near a dark room or know the first thing about digital manipulation. Try telling THEM they don't know about making good photographs.

This comes right to the crux of my question - if I can't 'manipulate' my images at the moment of the shutter click - by creative use of exposure setting, aperture etc. and then leave it at that, I would not be interested in the M8.

The idea of capturing momentary glimses of light and then taking them home to dissect like dead butterflies is not, for me, photography.

 

Seb

[stunsworth]

Seve "I store almost every shot" you must be crazy or very good to have so many keepers, see you in 10 years ........ a lota space to keep digital

 

Crazy rather than good ;-). I guess I'm a bit of a horder. I'm always afraid that something I don't like now will provide interest later.

[vic vic]

detecting a high high degree of condecension in the tone of your post...

 

oh sebastian - please dont take it this way:-))))

my excuses for wrong impresion u have...

i just made logical argument, it has nothing to do with "high condensese", not from my intentions at least :-))

[mat_mcdermott]

 

...I also fear that with a DMR I would have to get my screen colour calibrated, then calibrate a colour printer (after buying one), then spend ages with an image before deciding it is not a keeper.

 

 

Your apprehension surrounding getting your system calibrated is understandable if you haven't done it before, but once you get the basics down you'll be wondering what the big deal was. I use a Spyder 2, which takes all of ten minutes to use, and when used in conjuction with good paper profiles yields very good results.

 

Deciding which images are keepers I feel is easier than with film. Not that I think staring through a loupe on a light table is dificult, but I have to worry about how an image is going to scan with film and with digital capture that extra step is eliminated.

 

The hardest part (and it's not all that hard) is getting a good work pattern to use with digital capture. Once that's in place, the technical aspect is very easy.

[Guest Seb V]

Ok Victor. I think a combination of a long day and my misunderstanding of your post led me to freak out at you.

So...sorry. )))

[waterlenz]

Sorry Vic, but I take exception to that quote. I can't help detecting a high high degree of condecension in the tone of your post. My pro lab does vey well by me thanks and to suggest that I have yet to appreciate why Leicas are such great tools is a bit much.

There are plenty of pro photographers - I know several very highly regarded fashion ones who wouldn't go anywhere near a dark room or know the first thing about digital manipulation. Try telling THEM they don't know about making good photographs.

This comes right to the crux of my question - if I can't 'manipulate' my images at the moment of the shutter click - by creative use of exposure setting, aperture etc. and then leave it at that, I would not be interested in the M8.

The idea of capturing momentary glimses of light and then taking them home to dissect like dead butterflies is not, for me, photography.

 

Seb

This is because someone else gets PAID to do the darkroom or post-processing work. IMHO, darkroom/PP work can make or break just about any image. Doing it oneself provides the most direct control on the final result.

Tom

[wda]

Seb, many valid issues have already been addressed above. May I add another one?

 

Much depends on your main requirement as an end product. I use an M6 and M3 together with a Digilux 2. They are largely complementary cameras and all are frequently used.. However, if you need file sizes suitable for a digital photo library the film cameras still have the edge, even when the M8 arrives. Extrapolation is not a satisfactory way of generating 50 or 60mb files from a 5mp or 10 mp digital capture. If your needs are purely for personal pleasure, either is satisfactory probably with the edge going to the digital camera. But you don't need an M8 to achieve that. Try a Lumix (with Leica lens) and see how well the results please you.

 

Don't be put off refining your computer skills to get the best out of digital.

 

David

[vic vic]

sebastian - ya, i guess things are getting off sometimes.. i also have such combinations here:-))))

 

exactly tom.. personally i prefer to do it myself as u say. b/w in darkroom only me. colors or when b/w needed without silver gelatin print then i just get a high end archival scan from pro studio that is expertice for that, get a full file of it and work on my computer myself. do it yourself = dignity to photogrpahy and yourslef :-))))

[SteveYork]

Will the M8 -- or any digital camera for that matter -- necessitate long hours in front of the the computer?

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[leicapfile]

Steve,

 

",,,,long hours in front of the computer"?

 

I think the proper answer depends upon the individual. Is he/she a pro that puts food on the table as a result of their work? Or just a serious amatuer.

 

In my case I'm the latter with some film M's and a Digilux zoom and a D2. Both the digitals were purchased for their ease in transmitting e-mail pics to the spread out Family. And they are wonderful for that. Especially the D2 which I find is capable of excellent images.

 

However, even though I'm a retired engineer with more computer skills than most, at 63+ I find even the manipulations available through PS Elements 4.0 a bit mysterious. The schooling I had 50 years ago in developing and printing film in the Family business does not seem to have a seamless counterpart with digital.

 

In reality then, digital represents a whole new learning curve for all, with only the end result images in common. But so did learning the various techniques involved in developing and printing those 50 some years ago in the darkroom. One can argue the advantages and disadvantages and results ad infinitum. However, while at the PC/Mac, at least you can sit down.

 

If you are to be serious about photography now or in the coming years, I think you'll have to get used to staring at that screen, and manipulating that mouse. Get a comfortable chair.

 

Best,

 

Jerry

[bill]

Seb, your question is certainly thought-provoking.

 

Here's my take. I currently "run" an M7 and an LC-1. The attractions of the M8 to me are:

• The ability to "digitise" my investment in M-mount lenses.
  
• The "instant gratification" of the digital workflow
  
• The flexibility of a digital darkroom (which I grant I can achieve with scanning)

The disadvantages are:

• Price - this is a short-term drawback associated with cash-flow(!)
  
• The 1.33 crop factor - I didn't think this would matter to me, but when push turns to shove I find that it does

So - what to do? In the short-term, nothing. I don't have enough information to make a decision, nor enough idle cash to be an early adopter, so I shall sit back and watch, and wait.

 

My gut instinct at the moment is telling me in time to go down the L1 route, as a replacement for the LC-1, although not until there is a fast prime available. The 4:3 system is adequate to my needs - My E-1 proved that. Another option that I would not rule out would be to pick up an RD-1 as an interim measure. I could afford to do that alongside my M7 - the M8 would require me to sacrifice my M7 to pay for it.

 

The M8 is very attractive, and I'm not ruling it out, but there is a part of me that says the first of anything is rarely the fully-developed concept - the sine qua non. The M8.2, the M9 that brings the full-frame sensor to the M-range, first seen in the R10, will be the one for me.

 

Regards,

 

Bill