90 vs, 75 Summicron

[dritz]

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An old debate, I know. But I'm considering adding a 90 APO-M to my bag. I already have the 75 'cron. Now, that lens is magnificent. Short focus throw, light weight, small size, optical excellence, 0.7m minimum focus distance, and (most importantly) a human perspective ...

 

About the 90? Optical excellence is unquestionable. Longer focus throw can make it difficult to use in some fast moving situations, 1m minimum focus distance, big (though not oversized), heavy (but not much heavier than the 90/2,8).

 

The question comes down to perspective. I wish to further narrow the background from the field of view. Will the 90 buy me that much over the 75? Assuming the same subject size in the 90 as one has with the 75... I guestimate the elimination of about a third of the background area.

 

Other considerations?

 

Then again, maybe I'm just convincing myself to get another titanium lens! We can rationalize anything!

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[lars_bergquist]

This to a large extent depends on what other lenses you have in your bag. You will certainly not lug both the 75 and the 90 'lux at the same time! 35 and 90 mm is the classical combo that covers about 90 % of everything. 35 and 75 gives you less range; the combination sounds like an old SLR zoom. The 28 length is a more natural companion to the 75.

 

But it also depends on your future with the M system. The success of the M8 is such that I suspect that film will fade fast. The film M cameras will go the way of the screw-thread cameras -- fondly remembered, sometimes fed a roll or two on a beautiful day, but not taken serious except by certified collectors.

 

If your future lies with the digital format, then the 90 becomes the equivalent of an 120 mm lens, with the 35 as a 47 mm 'standard'. This is still a very viable combo for outdoorsmen, but not exactly for round-the-world street photography. Here, 28 and 75 ("37 and 100") take over. So you see, there's a case for both sides. The question is, what kind of photographer are you? And that is ALWAYS the decisive question.

 

I must admit that my favourite 90 mm for the M -- any M -- is a 1958 vintage Elmarit. It costs less, is lots lighter, and is optically very good. You also have a sure-fire conversation piece if you encounter another leicaphile ...

 

The old man from B.C. (Before the Computer)

[robsteve]

Dean:

 

Get the 90mm, it has great image quality and the backgrounds are well out of focus. I think the 90mm APOs ASPH gives a more classic Leica look than the 75mm ASPH, while still being sharp.

 

Here are a couple of images from a 90mm APO-ASPH at f2. the bottom images was at or near the close focus limit. Both shot on the M8.

 

 

[dfbldwn]

Getting a 135mm (even more narrowing of background than 90mm) for a kit that already contains a 75mm makes about as much sense as getting a 90mm for a kit that already contains a 50mm.

 

28mm, 50mm, 90mm makes a strong kit for the mainstream

 

I prefer 40mm, 75mm, 135mm

because I hate the way wide angles squish the midgets' heads when I take snaps at the circus.

 

The 135mm is easier to focus in fast moving situations than the 90mm, probably due to smaller aperture when wide open.

 

You have understated all the advantages of the 75. I've read "short throw" from others. For the distance range of 3.5ft to infinity, its the shortest throw I've ever seen in a Leica lens, with the exception of the 50mm 2.8 collapsible (new).

 

I'm unsure about your "human perspective" description. I find the results to be more telephoto than not. Definitely far tighter framing for my normal shooting distances (2m to 3m) when compared to 50mm.

[blakley]

I have the 75 Summicron ASPH as well as a 90/4 Macro Elmar and an older Elmarit.

 

I must say I hardly ever use the 90s; the 75 is just so good I can't justify taking it off the camera. The 75 is not quite as sharp as the Macro Elmar, but that's the highest standard I'm aware of. The 75 is sharper than any of my other lenses, and its bokeh is better than any other lens I own except the 50/1.2 Noct (aspheric). The focus throw as you observe is a major advantage, and the .7 meter close focus lets me frame almost as tight with the 75 as with the 90s, and at close focus the 75 does not unpleasantly distort faces when used as a portrait lens.

 

I'm attaching a shot with the 75 and M8 at close focus, cropped from sensor dimensions to 8x10 (that is, cropped horizontally but not vertically).

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[lambroving]

Use the 75/2 and crop. :D At least you will be able to see what you are shooting and the 75/2 has none of the "brittle" bad manners of the 90/2 AA in strong sidelighted scenes. In fact, I haven't been able to find any flaws at all..., nor has anyone else, as far as I'm aware. Must learn to use mine more though...

 

BTW, I don't buy Rob's argument at all, as nice as those shots are. If anything, the 75/2 has a gentler OOF than the 90/2 AA, especially wide open or nearly wide open. The transition is more gentle to my eye.

[budrichard]

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I have both the 90mmA and 75mmA for my M's. As soon as I started using the 75mm for portraits, it replaced the 90 because of the wider depth of field. I use slow (K25, now K64) film and am usually wide open. The 90 just did not have the depth of field and if not focused right on the eye, it was easier to get the eye out of focus. The 75 is also the sharpest portrait lens I have ever used. -Dick

[robsteve]

BTW, I don't buy Rob's argument at all, as nice as those shots are. If anything, the 75/2 has a gentler OOF than the 90/2 AA, especially wide open or nearly wide open. The transition is more gentle to my eye.

 

Bill:

 

I think what Dean was asking is if the 90mm will give a more out of focus background than the 75mm. I posted the pictures to illustate this, not the bokeh or transition, just that the background is well out of focus. I don't think you get this with the 75mm.

 

I also have the 75mm APO asph, but have used it only a few times. The framelines on the M8 are way off compared to what you get in the frame. There is nothing wrong with the image quality, but like the 75mm Summilux on the M6-M7, the framing can be problematic when shooting quickly. I get too many apendages cropped off. I think I will probably just end up selling my 75mm APO.

 

Here is another with the 90mm APO ASPH shot up close.

 

[peter_n]

I use the 75mm Summicron (an incredible lens) and also the APO 90mm ASPH and I have a "thin" TE 90/2.8 for travel. IMHO the 90mm AA is terrific when your main subject is not close and the background to your main subject is not close to the subject. Otherwise it is bettered by other lenses. I have it for a particular long-term project that has very poor light and I need the f2.0. When the project is done I will sell it and replace it with a Konica 90/2.8 M-Hexanon - I should never have sold mine 3 years ago.