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Summilux 24 Backfocus


DennisK

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I've just come home with a very expensive 24mm Summilux and on my M9 there's a distinct backfocus. It's also quite severe with 5-6cm at 1 meter focusing distance which makes it useless for close portraits among other things. Now, what do I do now? My 35mm Summicron focuses perfectly so I assume it's not the camera but actually the lens. So here are a few questions:

 

1) Do I have to send the camera in or can the store where I bought it (Meister-Camera, Berlin) fix this problem?

 

2) If I have to send it in, do I have to send the camera as well? How long does that take?

 

3) Is there a way to calibrate the lens myself?

 

This is pretty annoying for a 5000,- Euro lens and I'd rather not be without the camera for a long time. Any ideas on how to procede?

 

Thanks in advance,

Dennis

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I'd second the advice on checking the camera. Take it into a store and see if you can get focus with other fast new glass. The 50 1.4 asph is a good candidate, or the 75 cron.

 

If you get consistent back-focus, then it's the camera and it will need to be adjusted.

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Thanks for the answers so far. I'm not 100% positive that it's the lens but I've shot a lot of frames with my 35mm summicron and they were almost exlusively f/2 and spot on. Maybe the f/2 is enough to hide the misfocus, I don't know. Checking with a longer fast lens is a good suggestion, I'll try a 50 f/1.4 at Meister (I bought the camera there as well).

 

There's one more thing: I have a Nokton 35 f/1.2 on order due next week which would be the last lens I'd get for a long time. Now if Leica adjusts the camera together with the Summilux and the Summicron I'm pretty sure, they won't touch the Nokton. What would I do when the Nokton is off after the calibration of the body?

 

And one final question: What's the timeframe for a trip for my equipment to Solms and back?

 

Thanks,

Dennis

 

 

Edit: I just did a few more test with the 35mm and it is spot on. A 5cm backfocus would be readily visible and it's just not there. SInce I just bought the Summilux today and it's like new, do you think, Meister would let me exchange it for another sample?

Edited by DennisK
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This just shows the nightmare that is the Leica M rangefinder. The focussing is off, which is at fault, the camera or the lens or both?

 

The two wide Summiluxes have a close focus group which caused lots of problems when they were first introduced, so if the Summicron is spot-on, the lens is by no means in the clear.

 

What you have to avoid is having Leica adjust the body and lenses to form a cosy trio which makes adding other lenses a problem. Both the camera and the lenses should be adjusted to their own independent standards to retain full lens interchangeability.

 

If I were you, I'd send the lens back in the first instance and you might like to point out to the dealer and Leica CS that it is simply not acceptable to spend €5k only to have to return the product immediately for warranty service.

 

Be sure to let us know how you get on.

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Thanks for all the advice. It's really maddening because I just sold a complete Canon system (for various reasons) and I thought, Leica had a much better quality control and I also wanted to keep it REAL simple and use only two or three lenses. And now I can't even get that properly calibrated out of the box. It's a little insane.

 

Ok, come monday I'll get back to the store and see what happens with a longer fast lens and based on that I'll have to send it all in for better of for worse. One question still remains: how long does such a calibration take? CPS was really quick (3-4 days) but I suspect, Leica takes longer?

 

Dennis

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If the lens is absolutely new...you should return it and get a refund. The service turn around varies greatly with some getting repairs within 7-10 days and others waiting months. Once you send it back to Leica ..its your problem and not the dealers.

 

This is a lens worth sorting out and as mentioned its more often the camera body ..but not for sure.

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One day, Leica will realise there's a direct link between the level of losses they make as a company and the level of sub-standard product they ship out the door.

 

As for the "Pruefzertifikat" which accompanies every product, they are worthless bits of paper. They might as well be signed by the Office Cat.

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Thanks for the answers so far. I'm not 100% positive that it's the lens but I've shot a lot of frames with my 35mm summicron and they were almost exlusively f/2 and spot on. Maybe the f/2 is enough to hide the misfocus, I don't know. Checking with a longer fast lens is a good suggestion, I'll try a 50 f/1.4 at Meister (I bought the camera there as well).

 

There's one more thing: I have a Nokton 35 f/1.2 on order due next week which would be the last lens I'd get for a long time. Now if Leica adjusts the camera together with the Summilux and the Summicron I'm pretty sure, they won't touch the Nokton. What would I do when the Nokton is off after the calibration of the body?

 

And one final question: What's the timeframe for a trip for my equipment to Solms and back?

 

Thanks,

Dennis

 

 

Edit: I just did a few more test with the 35mm and it is spot on. A 5cm backfocus would be readily visible and it's just not there. SInce I just bought the Summilux today and it's like new, do you think, Meister would let me exchange it for another sample?

Meister is about the best camera shop around. Leica has a short turnaround nowadays, less than a week, but when I had to return my Summilux 50asph for exactly the same problem, it took them a month, as there was one part out of supply:mad:

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Personally, I think Leica made a mistake moving into the realm of floating elements in rangefinder lenses. It is tough enough getting the focus to track with the rangefinder in simple optics, and once one is trying to move glass around (changing the optical formula on the fly) at the same time - I just don't think even they have the precision horsepower to pull it off consistently.

 

With SLRs, you focus until the image looks sharp, and it is irrelevant if the focus ring reads "2.5 feet" or "2.9 feet". With an RF, your are basically scale-focusing - depending on the precison of the RF link to correctly track the focus scale, and thus for the focus scale to correctly track how the glass is moving.

 

It is of note that with Hasselblad's V 40 and 50 FE lenses, there is a separate ring to move the FE - and one needs to focus, set the FE, and then refocus slightly (or at least check it) because moving the FE can slightly change the focus point.

 

It seems like a fair proportion of the designs that incorporate FE are running into focus problems. 75 'cron, 50 'lux, now perhaps the 24? Whereas for the most part lenses designed contemporaneously without FE (even lowly Summarits) seem to have a better track record.

 

BTW, Mark, I have two cats available for signing pruefzertifiCATs if needed.

Edited by adan
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When I first got my M9 i used it mainly with a 90 cron asph and focus was spot on. Then i broke out my 35 lux asph and it was way off, front focusing iirc. I brought both (but not the cron) to leica nj and waited while they checked. After about an hour they broght the two items out, having significantly adjusted the rangefinder but not touched the 35 lux asph. The m9 rangefinder was significantly front focusing. Got home and mounted the 90 cron and, as expected, it was now back focusing significantly. Sent both lenses (but not the M9) to DAG, who confirmed (and corrected) the back focus on the cron as well as that the 35 lux asph was not only not front or back focusing, but also was not exhibiting any focus shift whatsoever that he could detect. I've been using the set up now for a about 2 months since I received the lenses back and all has been working beautifully. In addition, I picked up new 24 and 50 luxes about a month ago and these too have been working perfectly, focus for both spot on out of the box.

 

While now I couldn't be happier, it took some effort and perhaps a bit of luck. Anyone building an M system should expect to expend some effort to fine tune the set up and get everything working together perfectly. The results are worth the efforts, this is for sure. And it is absolutely critical to start the tuning process with the rangefinder. Do NOT adjust any lenses until you are certain that your rangefinder is appropriately set up.

 

Good luck.

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Thanks a lot for all the answers, it is really helpful. I think t is very good advice to make absolutely sure that the camera body is calibrated correctly in the first place. It should be possible for Leica (albeit a little time consuming) to adjust the 24 'lux and 35 'cron to match that perfectly.

 

I'll keep you posted on my progress, thanks again for the input.

 

Dennis

 

 

ps: Is DAG a member of this forum? Does he offer a service for lens/body calibraion?

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DAG is a camera repair shop in Wisconsin that specializes in Leica, among other items. They have a very fine reputation. I used them to 6 bit code all of my older lenses as well, and they come back beautifully for $90 and much faster than from leica.

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DAG is a camera repair shop in Wisconsin that specializes in Leica, among other items. They have a very fine reputation. I used them to 6 bit code all of my older lenses as well, and they come back beautifully for $90 and much faster than from leica.
The tolerances on this lens are such (1/1000 mm) that it is unlikely that it can be serviced by a third-party repairman, excellent as he may be.
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Wow, so the tolerences on these lenses is just really miniscule. Does this also mean that lenses with floating elements are more likely to go out of whack if you go on a long trip with lots of plane rides, bumpy roads etc., etc? I would think that this is more an issue of build quality perhaps. Once Leica gets it right it should stay right, right?

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The tolerances on this lens are such (1/1000 mm) that it is unlikely that it can be serviced by a third-party repairman, excellent as he may be.

 

If this is true then there might be another factor at play. While my 35mm 'cron is perfectly smooth and even when adjusting focus, the 24 'lux is a bit uneven. When I change the direction while adjusting focus the resistance goes from harder to softer so that at any given position you can very easily move it in either direction before the traction gets a bit harder again (difficult to put in words). At any rate the 35 Summicron is much smoother. For what it's worth the coupling with the rangefinder patch seems to be locked perfectly so it's probably just a matter of uneven dampening.

 

Dennis

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The focussing action of the 24 - and the 21 - is heavier than that of the 35mm Summicron which has just a single helicoid; the Summiluxes have two - one for the lens barrel, one for the focussing cam and then there's the close focus correction. Not sure that accounts for the back-focussing you are seeing and the focussing action should improve over time.

 

I still think the lens needs to go back.

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The tolerances on this lens are such (1/1000 mm) that it is unlikely that it can be serviced by a third-party repairman, excellent as he may be.

 

How would this compare to the 90 summicron asph? I only ask because DAG adjusted this lense for me bc it left with a significant back focus and came back spot on at all distances/apertures. So if there are a range of tolerances depending on lens, which other of the M lenses have the tighest tolerances?

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