patrick parker Posted September 27, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 27, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm sure they're crying their eyes out at Solms. Strangely my dealer couldn't care less. Here's why: I don't know when I'm going to have it. I don't know if I'll think it's garbage compared to M9.2 or M10 or the next brand (maybe epson or zeiss) that's going to put one up there for the prestige value I don't know if X1 will be all I need for a digital camera. Well clearly I don't know much but I know this: I'm going to spend a little less and get an " a la carte made " I've always had a perfect Leica in mind but I had more than enough bodies I could use, so I thought I'll spend the money to support the digital revolution. After an M8 and M8.2 and a bunch of point and shoots revolution came to a bloody end. I know there will be a digital camera in the future that will deserve the Leica optics until then I'll concentrate on the images more and the equipment less. I know this is the M9 post but since I got to converse with you guys the past month or so I thought I should ask you as well. How long is the waiting period after ordering an a la carte. Patrick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 27, 2009 Posted September 27, 2009 Hi patrick parker, Take a look here One less M9 customer, I canceled my order today.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
arthury Posted September 27, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 27, 2009 To add to that ... I don't know what Nikon and Canon is pulling out of their bags this Fall. Incidentally, the sales-people (here in the US) handling dealers has an attitude which I can't place my finger on ... not sure where is that snobbishness originating from ... from deep profits and being a super successful camera company? May be they should review their balanced sheet. I think I know where it originates from ... an artificially induced demand, which I believe will subside not too far in the future. I wonder ... how large is the high-priced rangefinder market among the professionals. I bet it is less than 5% of the market share compared to Nikon and Canon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted September 27, 2009 Share #3 Posted September 27, 2009 how large is the high-priced rangefinder market among the professionals. I bet it is less than 5% of the market share compared to Nikon and Canon. I reckon if they get 1% market they'll be ecstatic. I know there will be a digital camera in the future that will deserve the Leica optics until then I'll concentrate on the images more and the equipment less. Of course, it's entirely you prerogative not to get it, but I'm puzzled by this statement. It seems to me that if this camera doesn't deserve the Leica optics then it's unlikely that another digital camera will in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted September 27, 2009 Share #4 Posted September 27, 2009 This kind of thread is dumb. No Leica camera has been immediately available at launch. There's no snobbishness among the Leica reps. There's nothing they can do. Solms produces and allocates. Local distributors also allocate. There are more customers for the moment than there are cameras. Wowsers! "One fewer M9 customer." That just means everyone else moved up a notch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 28, 2009 Share #5 Posted September 28, 2009 Not one less customer for Leica M9, but rather a valuable place freed up for an appreciative recipient in the queue. Such is life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanpeck Posted September 28, 2009 Share #6 Posted September 28, 2009 This kind of thread is dumb. No Leica camera has been immediately available at launch. There's no snobbishness among the Leica reps. There's nothing they can do. Solms produces and allocates. Local distributors also allocate. There are more customers for the moment than there are cameras. Wowsers! "One fewer M9 customer." That just means everyone else moved up a notch. I agree, Howard. Thanks for saying so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 28, 2009 Share #7 Posted September 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) You guys crack me up. M9=M8.3, at best. Let's wait for the M10. With the M10 we could hope that the technology will trickle down from the S2, rather than trickle up from the M8! Try to argue with that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick parker Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted September 28, 2009 I reckon if they get 1% market they'll be ecstatic. Of course, it's entirely you prerogative not to get it, but I'm puzzled by this statement. It seems to me that if this camera doesn't deserve the Leica optics then it's unlikely that another digital camera will in the future. There's always been camera's out there that accepted leica lenses. When analog was their game leica did and still does a brilliant job with the body, but who wouldn't go for a camera with a faster processor and a sensor with competitive iso performance? These lenses are not going anywhere soon, they last for an incredibly long time. There is a big second second , third , fourth hand market for it. if zeiss came up with a digital rangefinder body tomorrow that had a slightly better sensor M9 would be in serious trouble. There is also the risk of Canon and Nikon coming up with their S2 rival , which undoubtably will be so much cheaper. How long will that set the M10 back do you think? Why they announced the S2 so early will always be a curiosity to me. The japanese are waiting,with their huge "devices" in their hands and a kaufmann grin on their faces. I love Leicas and don't want to see this company perish but this management is really asking for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick parker Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted September 28, 2009 Hello Erl, Careful landing the plane man you don't want that seagull messing up the propeller, Can you imagine how badly that may affect your sales? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 28, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 28, 2009 You guys crack me up. M9=M8.3, at best. Let's wait for the M10. With the M10 we could hope that the technology will trickle down from the S2, rather than trickle up from the M8! Try to argue with that! Sorry about the cracks Rick. Hope its not too painful. More seriously, let's put humour aside and consider the reality. A camera has arrived. It happens to be called 'M9'. What's in a name? Precious little. It does represent a significant step forward from the already very functional M8. I know because I own and work with both. Virtually from 'launch day' + a bit, for both cameras. They're the facts to date. The rest of your comment is pure speculation and not to be relied on. You could, of course, 'bet' on it, but with an equal chance of losing. Any 'trickle down' effect from the S2, if opted for, would be another step foward, but still in the future. I am here and now, and enjoying and benefiting in the present as if there is no future. One day, in my case, I will be right! As for arguing with you, as you invite. No thanks. I am more than content. I am ecstatic with my choice. I hope the future arrives for you in time for you to benefit. Choice is one of the great advantages of life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted September 28, 2009 Share #11 Posted September 28, 2009 Leica move forward incrementally. The M8 gave us the first Leica DRF, the M8.2 fixed some of its problems, the M9 gives us FF and removes the need for IR filters. It's still noisy at high ISO, it's slow to process the now larger images, there are concerns (in my mind at least) about it being built down to a price. The M9 may also be the product which saves Leica from financial oblivion. It's a stop-gap product, for sure, born of the necessity to get some cash flowing. There will be further incremental developments in the future. I think we have enough resolution, lower image noise and faster processing will be the priorities. You can sit on the fence waiting for the perfect camera to come along or you can have some fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted September 28, 2009 Share #12 Posted September 28, 2009 Wowsers! "One fewer M9 customer." That just means everyone else moved up a notch. Old Army saying: Without attrition, no morale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 28, 2009 Share #13 Posted September 28, 2009 erl, NOT speculation. Leica said that what was learned in the S2 technology would be used in the M line. Well, it isn't being used in the new M9. Stephan Daniels said that everything that was learned in the M8 is being used in the M9. M9=M8...just FF. M10 will be S2 tech. Leica already said S2 will be used in other platforms (M). That isn't speculation. As for you being "here and now,"... me too. Not sure why you would think that you might be the only one living in the present? Me too... I have an M9 on order too. But, the difference may be that I know that the sensor board and processing board are made out of house by the same previous partner that made the M8. And the sensor is the same as the M8, just FF (which is very cool by me). Hoping for an incremental step in technology and FF. But, this is an out of house update to sell cameras until the M10 is ready, which will have S2 technology and that isn't speculation. Leica has said as much. It is what it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
efftee Posted September 28, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 28, 2009 You guys crack me up. M9=M8.3, at best. Let's wait for the M10. With the M10 we could hope that the technology will trickle down from the S2, rather than trickle up from the M8! Try to argue with that! Why not wait for the M11, which will have S3's technology? Chasing tech is like chasing the horizon, you'd never reach it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 28, 2009 Share #15 Posted September 28, 2009 OK Rick, not looking to argue, but probably being pedantic (my failing!). Until it happens it is speculation. Leicas statement about a future R10 turned out to be speculation, because it didn't happen. So any statement about the future M is speculation until it happens. In the case of the M, I believe it will, but I am not waiting until it does. Glad to know you have ordered an M9. You will enjoy it when it arrives, which will certainly be before the M10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 28, 2009 Share #16 Posted September 28, 2009 erl, I'm probably being pedantic. I have reread my posts and I am misdirecting my frustration with the M9 forum in your direction. I just think the M9 is what it is, FF with slightly better processing. I think Leica made a smart move and gave us FF while we wait for the S2 technology. They didn't have the money or technology to make the M10 with S2 technology now. It will be out on 10/10/10. (ok, speculation by me) But, they did give me something to use while I wait for the killer M10. They gave me FF with "incremental" better technology by Jenoptic. Stephan Daniels is clearly proud of the camera when you watch him in the video. I sure think that it is going to be nice to have FF when I finally get it. I plan on keeping my M8. I have quite a few lenses and it will make a good camera to keep somewhere for when I don't have the M9 around. I don't plan on using it along side of my M9. But, I can't see getting rid of it. The M9 is what it is. The M8 is what it is. But, the M10 is going to redefine M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted September 28, 2009 Share #17 Posted September 28, 2009 . But, the M10 is going to redefine M. You already know what will be in the M10? Maybe you can tell us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 28, 2009 Share #18 Posted September 28, 2009 Rick, keeping the M8 is a good move if you don't need to sell. For the time being, I am keeping two M8's alongside my M9. Probably sell one eventually but don't need to. With the M9 you do 'sort of' double your lens bag, without having to carry twice as many lenses . Your frustration will dissipate when that M9 lands in your hands. Pascal, please don't ask for more speculation or we will all go mad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 28, 2009 Share #19 Posted September 28, 2009 You already know what will be in the M10? Maybe you can tell us. Yeah, I'll tell you. It won't be M8.3FF we are dissecting today on the M9 forum with the Jenoptic processing and the same sensor. It will be the trickle down technology from the S2 not the trickle up technology from the M8 with the suggestions of the current M8 owners. M9 is what it is...M8.3. Edit: Sorry again, erl is right. I'll stop speculating and enjoy my M9 when I finally get it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Deranger Posted September 28, 2009 Share #20 Posted September 28, 2009 Nicely put! Agreed! You can sit on the fence waiting for the perfect camera to come along or you can have some fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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