meatboy Posted September 12, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica, Zeiss and Cosina (VC) have made film cameras with no finder in the past, add an optical VF to a matched lens and away you go. Do you think there would be a market for a FF M9 with live view on the LCD that has no RF finder mechanism at all? Essentially chop off the whole top deck. Could this make a FF M a lot cheaper, maybe even 1/3 off - no optics cost, no alignment issues further reducing cost. This could be a bridge camera between the M9 and the X1. It could be popular with the one lens crowd, but still retain lens interchangeability. It certainly would improve compactness and make the "RFless" 18Mpixel M9 a great backpack or landscape camera. Thoughts? PS: Leica should put me on the payroll for ideas! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Hi meatboy, Take a look here M9 with no finder mechanism - no top deck.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rob_x2004 Posted September 12, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 12, 2009 MSandvik Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted September 12, 2009 Share #3 Posted September 12, 2009 Seven thousand and two dollars forty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatboy Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share #4 Posted September 12, 2009 MSandvik Rob, too cryptic for me Even for google Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted September 12, 2009 Share #5 Posted September 12, 2009 Why not give it a go and see how it sells? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 12, 2009 Share #6 Posted September 12, 2009 Well, the Leica RF/VF unit is probably about $1,400 of the camera cost, so that's all you'd save (It was $798 to replace a Leica VF/RF 6 years ago). Plus the cost of separate machining/design for a different top plate. Which can't just be chopped off, because it also contains tightly packed electronics as well as the RF/VF. So, $5,600 for a camera limited to lenses that can be scale-focused: 12-24mm - at least some of which have problems with the M9 sensor and wouldn't be appropriate, or can't be scaled-focused at full aperture (Cosina's Bessa-L came with 15 f/4.5 and 25 f/4 lenses - not 2.8 or 1.4 lenses). Would you buy it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatboy Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted September 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, the Leica RF/VF unit is probably about $1,400 of the camera cost, so that's all you'd save (It was $798 to replace a Leica VF/RF 6 years ago). Plus the cost of separate machining/design for a different top plate. Which can't just be chopped off, because it also contains tightly packed electronics as well as the RF/VF. So, $5,600 for a camera limited to lenses that can be scale-focused: 12-24mm - at least some of which have problems with the M9 sensor and wouldn't be appropriate, or can't be scaled-focused at full aperture (Cosina's Bessa-L came with 15 f/4.5 and 25 f/4 lenses - not 2.8 or 1.4 lenses). Would you buy it? I suppose a good guideof sales would be the sales of the RF less VC and Zeiss. IF an electronic in-focus module could be jammed in there and read out on the LCD the scale focus would no longer be an issue. If I was a backpacker/landscape photog I might buy it! - Limited market I agree. 18Mpixels of FF wide angle goodness using proper wides would be hard to pass. Most of the RF-less Ms have been aimed at the super wide angle crowd! I guess they (zeiss leica CV) have made these types of cameras in the past why not now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 12, 2009 Share #8 Posted September 12, 2009 The RF-less CV is no longer sold - that's probably a good measure of how profitable it was for Cosina at the end. How the Cosina-built Zeiss-Ikon is doing, you'd have to ask Zeiss. I guess my question is - why not just buy an M9? You really aren't going to save enough weight and cost to make a difference, while throwing away 3/4s of the camera's usability with other lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted September 12, 2009 Share #9 Posted September 12, 2009 If you'd like to simulate using such a camera you could just take a long strip of gaffer tape and extend it over the viewfinder windows and ... voila! No need for a different model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted September 12, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 12, 2009 Leica, Zeiss and Cosina (VC) have made film cameras with no finder in the past, add an optical VF to a matched lens and away you go. Do you think there would be a market for a FF M9 with live view on the LCD that has no RF finder mechanism at all? Essentially chop off the whole top deck. Could this make a FF M a lot cheaper, maybe even 1/3 off - no optics cost, no alignment issues further reducing cost. This could be a bridge camera between the M9 and the X1. It could be popular with the one lens crowd, but still retain lens interchangeability. It certainly would improve compactness and make the "RFless" 18Mpixel M9 a great backpack or landscape camera. Thoughts? PS: Leica should put me on the payroll for ideas! Leica's rangerfinderless M1 wasn't a big seller despite being cheaper than the M2 or M3. Same with the MD and MDa weren't either - and I'm sure the large majority of these were bought for scientific and industrial use or with Visoflexes. I've never heard of the finder-less version of the Contarex being used for general photography; the only finder-less Olympus I've seen was strictly for photomicrography (didn't even have a proper shutter). The scientific and industrial uses are now taken care of either by comparatively cheap DSLRs or by specialised digital sensors, so I don't think there's much hope that Leica will consider a finder-less digital M to be a profitable venture. Someone suggested adding electronic focus confirmation to make it more attractive. I reckon this is a non-starter because it would require either a different sensor and electronics (for focus detection on the sensor) or a moving mirror and focus-detection module. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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