R10dreamer Posted August 25, 2009 Share #1 Posted August 25, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) This is a general question about MF mirror slap. I know my old Pentax 67 had some serious mirror slap and that Hasselblad's have a somewhat complicated relationship with mirror slap. But, I would like to hear other's experiences with mirror slap on their MF equipment and the affect it had on their images. As well as people that have used the S2 and their impressions of mirror slap with the S2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 Hi R10dreamer, Take a look here Mirror slap. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mhoersch Posted August 26, 2009 Share #2 Posted August 26, 2009 No problem at all with mirror slap on my M8 handheld , nor with my Hasselblad and a pre-released mirror on a tripod . But seriously, if you want to get anywhere near to actually using the kind of resolution that MF equipment or the S2 and their lenses are capable of you must use a tripod, anyway. Handheld at 1/125th or less every photograph is blurred by motion of the camera - the only question that remains is: how much? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 26, 2009 Share #3 Posted August 26, 2009 Let's put this in simple terms if the S2 does not have a convenient mirror lock up . I won't buy it. But going from memory playing with the S2 it was pretty well dampened but obviously have to see how that really is. Every camera has mirror slap obviously we are talking big mirrors in MF. So it is pronounced compared to 35mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted August 26, 2009 Share #4 Posted August 26, 2009 When I shot with a Phase One P65+ (Mamiya camera) last week, I shot on a tripod and pressed the shutter release by hand and also used the mirror lock up and cable release. The tripod was pretty sturdy and I shot at about 1 second. The images taken without a cable release and without MLU were pretty degraded. (I tried to be as gentle as I could releasing the shutter.) It is hard to say how much of that was vibration from me pressing the release and how much was mirror slap. (I should have also tested with a cable release and the mirror functioning normally.) When you are up to this level of resolution, even the slightest vibration, subject movement, or mis-focus may undercut your reason for using MF in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted August 26, 2009 Share #5 Posted August 26, 2009 I think the button on the left (photographers perspective) side beneath the bayonet is the mirror lock up !? Mirror-slap is critical with certain shutter speeds, I think 1/30s-4s are worst, even on a good tripod. i rented a Mamiya RB67 a few years ago, two days of work were ruined because the lack of a mirror-lock! With the M8 and a 50mm-lens I'm unable to see any difference in sharpness from 1/125s up, a SLR like the S2 would propably need 1/250s? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sps Posted August 26, 2009 Share #6 Posted August 26, 2009 I think they'd make a serious mistake to not have a mirror lockup button right by the user's finger. With my Contax 645 and the old Kodak 16MP back, I suffer the same problem. It is a very well damped system, but you still get some blur unless you can get the shutter speed up over 1/60th (maybe 120th). Most of my shots are with the mirror locked up. I can't think of any way around it with the S2. On another note I'm guessing a lot of M8 users will be shocked by the limited depth of field if they switch over. Figure shooting at f8-f16 to get nicely usable shots, and you'll see how important the ISO performance is for handheld work requiring a fast shutter. MF has definite usability trade-offs, but the results are impressive (and I'm talking about 16MP). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lxlim Posted August 26, 2009 Share #7 Posted August 26, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think probably at least 1/500 for me. I'm comfortable with 1/180 s for M8 with people in casual movements. With more pixels resolving the scene, its a logical conclusion to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lxlim Posted August 26, 2009 Share #8 Posted August 26, 2009 ...I'm guessing a lot of M8 users will be shocked by the limited depth of field if they switch over. Figure shooting at f8-f16 to get nicely usable shots, and you'll see how important the ISO performance is for handheld work requiring a fast shutter. MF has definite usability trade-offs, but the results are impressive (and I'm talking about 16MP) . I did forget about that and it would be one of the negatives for me. Not the S2 fault, just the nature of the market I want to use it in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted August 27, 2009 Share #9 Posted August 27, 2009 I have used Hasselblad and Rollei 6x6 gear along with other MF gear since 1972. Recently I tried out the Phase. I think we really have to look at the future of MF gear differently. The resolution is so high that regular ground glass focusing is problematic. And the AF is center point only. Then there is the mirror slap. I think live view/EVF is the solution for MF and hopefully this will happen sooner rather than later. I have really grown to appreciate live view on my 5DII. Especially for precise focusing. If a future MF camera had the ability to superimpose a magnified "focus spot" within the overall live view, that would be great. It would eliminate the large mirror box and make the cameras more manageable. The same camera could be used as we now use an SLR and a technical camera. And since most MF photography is slower paced than 35mm, live view should work well even for AF where contrast detect may be slower than phase detect, but is more accurate and can be at any point on the sensor. And should Leica come out with an EVF version of the S2 in the future... existing lenses could work on it via an adapter. Plus the lack of a mirror box could allow Digitars and other lenses to work on it too. (With movements.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted August 27, 2009 Share #10 Posted August 27, 2009 .........I think live view/EVF is the solution for MF and hopefully this will happen sooner rather than later.........It would eliminate the large mirror box and make the cameras more manageable....... Take a look at RED, they seem to be heading in this direction with DSMC, even if M(otion) is their primary driver. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted August 27, 2009 Share #11 Posted August 27, 2009 High-quality EVF for professional demands are still not available, it will take some years till SLRs become obsolete in the professional market. RED is marketing-orientated and uses low-res (800x600) EVF not capable of reaching the quality of optical viewfinders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted August 27, 2009 Share #12 Posted August 27, 2009 High-quality EVF for professional demands are still not available, it will take some years till SLRs become obsolete in the professional market.RED is marketing-orientated and uses low-res (800x600) EVF not capable of reaching the quality of optical viewfinders. In my opinion, the LCD on the 5DII is perfectly suitable for this already due to its magnified view focusing capability. I know a few high profile advertising and fashion photographers who currently use live view for people photography shooting on a tripod and hand held. This provides accurate focus and works well in low light. They are especially interested in seeing MF cameras replace the mirror with live view. Here are two shooters who say they shoot with live view handheld and on a tripod: http://www.gusmarx.com/ http://www.jeremygoldberg.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted August 28, 2009 Share #13 Posted August 28, 2009 Still shooting my Pentax 67 system (and Leica R and SL2mot) and tho I use either normal or wide angles with the 67, I always use the mirror pre-release. 90% of the time it's mounted on my Gitzo aluminum tripod w/ball head, too, I more often than not put some downward pressure near the top of the tripod to aid in steadying the contraption. I've never noticed any affect on my transparencies from the shutter vibration either and typically I'm using speeds of 125 and slower. If I had a choice I'd prefer something like my old Hasselblad SWC with it's leaf shutter - I have had good results with it hand held, even in low-light. I'm assuming that a Mamiya 67II would yield more M-like hand holding capabilities with little to no vibration. Does anyone know if the S2 has a mirror pre-release? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted August 28, 2009 Share #14 Posted August 28, 2009 Does anyone know if the S2 has a mirror pre-release? Yes. The S2 automatically does a mirror pre-release lock-up in self timer mode. As soon as you trigger the camera, the mirror flips up, the count-down shows on the LCD, then the shutter opens. Two seconds is sufficient for the (minimal) mirror vibration to subside. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 28, 2009 Share #15 Posted August 28, 2009 Is the timing adjustable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted August 28, 2009 Share #16 Posted August 28, 2009 Is the timing adjustable The timer can be set for either 2 or 10 seconds. The mirror locks up at the beginning of the countdown. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 28, 2009 Share #17 Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks what I was hoping for . I go about 3 or 4 seconds on my Phase body just gives ME a extra second or two to stand away. I'm slow. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted August 28, 2009 Share #18 Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks for the info David. That would work fine for my applications. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lxlim Posted August 28, 2009 Share #19 Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks what I was hoping for . I go about 3 or 4 seconds on my Phase body just gives ME a extra second or two to stand away. I'm slow. LOL So if someone were to video you, it would be a slo mo moment? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 28, 2009 Share #20 Posted August 28, 2009 LOL. I do use 3 seconds just gives me a chance to really look up and get my hands away and see what is being shot. As long as it is adjustable is all that matters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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