egibaud Posted November 17, 2006 Share #21 Posted November 17, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) egibaud - you are very boring. You are trivialising an important issue which concerns a lot of people, and after attacking the critics for repeating themselves, you seem to be on a crusade to spam every possible thread with your incessant snide attacks.. I did not put one more thread about vapor rumored sensor. Did I? All I say is that once more we get threads about unofficial solution. Why not wait for Leica and listen to what they say. They asked for 2 weeks... there is still one to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 Hi egibaud, Take a look here info from leica: new sensor . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest chris_h Posted November 17, 2006 Share #22 Posted November 17, 2006 This would be "Leica-like" ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted November 17, 2006 Share #23 Posted November 17, 2006 I did not put one more thread about vapor rumored sensor. Did I? All I say is that once more we get threads about unofficial solution. Why not wait for Leica and listen to what they say. They asked for 2 weeks... there is still one to go. I didn't know you were in charge of deciding what we can talk about in this forum. How comes your "moderator" status is not displayed under your name like the others ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted November 17, 2006 Share #24 Posted November 17, 2006 I didn't know you were in charge of deciding what we can talk about in this forum. How comes your "moderator" status is not displayed under your name like the others ? I simply gave my opinion and did not forbid anyone from wrting what they want. Did I? I think in these moments of stress having a bit of humour and blinking about the fact that we are all (this includes me) starting to launch thread about something unofficial is just funny. Did I say you could not speak about what ever you want? so... who is moderating who? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 17, 2006 Share #25 Posted November 17, 2006 Whatever they plan to do, I think they should let Pascal have one for a few days to shake it down... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted November 17, 2006 Share #26 Posted November 17, 2006 Some people have made a substantial investment and cannot send the camera to Germany for two weeks. In my opinion, actual owners of M8 cameras should get the first units of the new batch, giving their actual units when they receive the new ones. A small number of M8 cameras have been sold and only doing it in this way will provide a complete and satisfactory "repairment". If a new cover glass solves the problem, all this is 100% Leica fault (in the design and test of the camera). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted November 17, 2006 Share #27 Posted November 17, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Whatever they plan to do, I think they should let Pascal have one for a few days to shake it down... I agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erg Posted November 17, 2006 Share #28 Posted November 17, 2006 Some people have made a substantial investment and cannot send the camera to Germany for two weeks. In my opinion, actual owners of M8 cameras should get the first units of the new batch, giving their actual units when they receive the new ones. Now this would be Leica -like !! It would be an acceptable compensation for early adopters. I'll ask my dealer once the change of sensor is official. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted November 17, 2006 Share #29 Posted November 17, 2006 Some people have made a substantial investment and cannot send the camera to Germany for two weeks. In my opinion, actual owners of M8 cameras should get the first units of the new batch, giving their actual units when they receive the new ones. Asuming Leica is really coming up with this sensor change. What you mention is fair and comercially inteligent. Leica could send new cameras to dealers and present owner exchange their cam for a new one. This way they would not be left with no material. If it was not a mail order of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 17, 2006 Share #30 Posted November 17, 2006 Some thoughts if this is truly what they are thinking ,which i agree would be a good idea. They certainly won't be changing the sensor itself . There already made but adding something to it like a coating as we talked about or a new cover glass. There is really nothing wrong with the sensor itself except the streaking, the issue lies in the cover glass. Now how they handle a repair and/or exchange is a different matter. i can't be without for 10 days on a repair, this camera is now in service with me. I still like the idea of a exchange but I bought mine at B&H which is 3 k miles away and than there issue is stock on hand. What I think would be better and more control is send to NJ for folks in the States, than they ship a NEW one.Than take the old M8 and refurbish them and sell them at a discount with a one year warranty for a 1000 dollars less. They would have a line of folks buying them . But the exchange should come from a service center and not the dealers . There not making any money off a exchange program and it is to time consuming for them and not fair, plus it is not the dealers fault. For Leica this means the issue goes away and everyone is back in love again, which is what they want. Plus they can take this loss of revenye and use it for tax reasons also. let's say it was 2k in camera's that went out . Really it is not that bad if they do it with a refurbish program, they get some revenue back. Just my idea, but give the new owners like me a completely new camera immediately, we should not be punished by waiting. Than I will sell all my IR filters to the RD-1 folks. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted November 17, 2006 Share #31 Posted November 17, 2006 I don't believe. At least for now. I'm not much of a technician, but I don't think you can change a sensor like you change a lens. These things are not replaceable just like that. The whole camera has been designed around a particular sensor, and vice versa. I'd love to be proven wrong, though. And maybe, one day, we WILL see digital cameras with interchangeable sensors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted November 17, 2006 Share #32 Posted November 17, 2006 Guy, I believe that Leica is replacing the sensor to deal with the streaking. It could simply be a batch of out-of-spec sensors which got built into the first M8 shipments which is being replaced with properly working units. The IR issue does not have anything to do with the sensor replacement, as I understand it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkag Posted November 17, 2006 Share #33 Posted November 17, 2006 The Ricoh GR-d is a camera that has been built with upgradeable sensors in mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 17, 2006 Share #34 Posted November 17, 2006 Carsten it was reported that they need to tweek the sensor for the streaks but we are getting many reports so it is really hard to say what is going on. The IR issue is the protective glass does not have enough IR blocking and either add or replace the protective glass. I thinka coating would do it here . I am sure we will her something real soon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell W Baum Posted November 17, 2006 Share #35 Posted November 17, 2006 Leica Day in Amsterdam. i just spoke to the Leica Rep. He said that there will be a Firmware update to deal with the streaking. He called it an "easy" problem to fix. He wasn't sure what the solution to the IR problem would be. I borrowed a Heliopan IR filter and a step up ring from the shop and shot with my M8 black coats inside, with and without the filter. The rep. was amazed at how bad the purple problem was. But, he said you wouldn't have the problem outside. So I did the same test outside, and showed him it was almost at bad. He said he hadn't realized how bad it was. He is confident all will be fixed by Leica. Best, Mitchell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 17, 2006 Share #36 Posted November 17, 2006 Unless they've been working on this for a while, I'd be surprised if they have suddenly decided to change the sensor. The cost implications are huge and the people with the purse strings are going to want to be absolutely certain that this is the end of it. The product people have got one chance to fix the hardware and that is it. So, if they are planning to change the sensor and the software/firmware - including Capture 1 - we're not talking about sending it in the week after next. Even assuming the sensor with whatever revisions is ready now, I would have expected at least a 3 month testing period by people who are not Leica sycophants but who will really tell it the way it is. There are clearly people on this board who are well qualified to just that - though I don't think there's nearly enough JPEG coverage - and they should be involved, probably under NDA so the Good Ship Solms is not leaking like a sieve. Don't know how good Guy would be at keeping a secret though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted November 17, 2006 Share #37 Posted November 17, 2006 well hmm now seems i suggested something that 'may' be right if its true its great news for M8 owners prolly the best solution too Riley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 17, 2006 Share #38 Posted November 17, 2006 I'm pretty good but I have no real knowledge on this move. I hear many things but not on this one. I agree a completely new sensor switch is just out of the question, I mean what the hell else is out there. Nothing , so it has to be for the IR one of three things, maybe four . Coating the existing glass with more IR , two replace the one we have, A firmware fix on the sensor which is unlikely that would help or Re profiling the camera. The most logical is replace the glass along with a firmware upgrade and new C1 profiles. That's my bet I would love to field test it, just send them to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldc Posted November 17, 2006 Share #39 Posted November 17, 2006 leica solms just told me that there will be a new sensor for the M8. this info was given to me in a phone conversation with a service rep (leica kundendienst). he sounded convinced of what he said, mentioning that this info came from their 'Qualitaetsicherungsabteilung'(quality control deprtment). already sold cameras have to be sent in to change the sensor. maybe somebody else could call leica to verify.... peter While they are at it, could we ask for a higher resolution sensor? A 12 or maybe 16 mp sensor would be nice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted November 17, 2006 Share #40 Posted November 17, 2006 leica solms just told me that there will be a new sensor for the M8. this info was given to me in a phone conversation with a service rep (leica kundendienst). he sounded convinced of what he said, mentioning that this info came from their 'Qualitaetsicherungsabteilung'(quality control deprtment). already sold cameras have to be sent in to change the sensor. maybe somebody else could call leica to verify.... peter It's amazing that no one has mentioned, again, that the reason that the camera got this far without a problem, then suddenly turned up with these issues, is that the prototypes WERE FINE. I'd suggest that there was a problem with the parts installed in the production units themselves, not a design problem, never a design problem. That's something I doubt we'll know for sure till the book comes out, but it fits the known facts best. I'm just looking forward to this g__ da__ thing being over and done with so people can talk about real pictures, not whether that black is really black or if it's magenta. By the way, Central Camera in Chicago has MPs and M7s backing up in the used department because people are trading them in on M8s. "No one wants them now", is what sales there said. In fact, all their M8s are sold out and or returned to Germany at this point so they have none to show, which sucks because it is why I went to Central Camera in the first place. The demand is high, the problem is going to be fixed, and I would suspect that new units shipping from Germany will NOT exhibit this issue. If Leica is intelligent then production would have been held until corrected parts were available, and I suspect that in a week or two you'll have new users on here saying they see no evidence of a problem at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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