Jeanette Posted August 19, 2009 Share #1 Posted August 19, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) With all the chatter about the new S2 and the M9 which seems to be right around the corner there's still the "gap" between the D-Lux 4 and the M8 which was identified by Dr. Kaufmann about a year ago and which some (including me) hope will be closed sooner or later by something which might or might not be called "Digilux 4". Now, I only had the opportunity to test a Digilux 2 for one day some years ago and I never even touched a Digilux 3, but what I like about both of these (and their Panasonic counterparts) is that they still have the traditional photographic controls - a proper shutter speed dial, a proper aperture ring, and a proper focus ring. Incidentally, except for the M8, are there any other digital cameras (current or expired, SLR or compact, interchangeable lens or not) that have a similar layout? One can obviously attach old lenses to new dSLRs to get aperture and focus rings, but do any new lenses have this? And which other camera body sports a real shutter speed dial? Doesn't this look like an interesting feature which could distinguish a Leica "compact" from the competition and fit with their philosophy of reduction to the essentials? I'd love to have a "Digilux 4" which would be similar to the Digilux 2 but with a bigger sensor and with today's technology (faster, better high ISO behaviour, blabla) and I wouldn't mind to do without interchangeable lenses, but I doubt that Panasonic will release anything like that in the near future, so here's my question to those of you who know a bit more about the camera industry than me: Let's assume that Leica wants to release a digital camera with a price tag significantly below the M8 that's sufficiently different from what Panasonic is planning. Compared to the M8 and given its price it would be a "mass market" camera, i.e. it would only make sense economically if enough units are sold. What are Leica's options? Can they design and produce it themselves? I would think they don't have the facilities for this, right? Would it be possible to have Panasonic produce something exclusively for them that would only be sold under the Leica label? For a laywoman like me this also seems pretty unrealistic. Could they, for this project, team up with another camera maker instead? Will their contracts with Panasonic allow this? And even if they do, will this not be something that hurts their precious relation to Panasonic? And, finally, even if they want to find another partner for a "Digilux 4", who would that be? Certainly not Canon or Nikon, and very likely not Sony, Olympus, or Pentax. Maybe Ricoh? Samsung? Hmmm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Hi Jeanette, Take a look here Digilux 4 / Traditional controls / Panasonic. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
kievnut Posted August 19, 2009 Share #2 Posted August 19, 2009 The Panasonic GF-1 will be the next Leica Digilux 4 or D-Lux5. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 20, 2009 Share #3 Posted August 20, 2009 Jeanette-- Many folks on the forum agree completely with your list of desirable features. The disappointment with the Digilux 3 after all the excitement about the Digilux 2 was all over this forum. I believe that Leica had a great deal of input in the design of the Digilux 2, but that's only because it has all the features you mention. The Digilux 1 was a good camera, but seemed to be a Panasonic design adapted by Leica. The Digilux 2 seemed to be to have been designed by a completely different design team. It looked and felt like a Leica. But my feeling is that Panasonic didn't sell enough of their version to make them want to continue working from such strong Leica input. However, the developments in the Micro FourThirds cameras from Panasonic seem to me to be moving again in the direction you and I are looking for. On the other hand, Leica has said they do not intend to sell any more FourThirds format cameras, probably because the Digilux 3 didn't do as well as either Leica or Panasonic wanted. Those are just my feelings, based on nothing other than reading the reviews and the posts here. Rumors continue that Leica will indeed have a Leica-branded Micro FourThirds camera. We'll have to wait and see. Leica management is pretty smart these days; I think they have a good idea what we want. I can't add anything to what you said, but I think that in general, things are moving in the direction we want. Leica is a small company. IMO, they wouldn't be able to produce a viable mass-market camera themselves. (Remember, the closest thing Leica had to a mass-market product before the Panasonic tie-up was the Leica CL; and for it, they turned to Minolta for production.) Leica and Panasonic seem to be working well together; I don't expect Leica to go seeking another partner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
denniswksit Posted August 20, 2009 Share #4 Posted August 20, 2009 The market seems to be divided into 2: one moving towards full frame camera, the other is the more compact m4/3 system. Now, Leica is going to enter into the full frame market by the introduction of M9. Apparently, Leica (teamed up with Pany) will enter into m4/3 market through the lens market. If Leica wishes to produce its own m4/3 camera, it would be quite risky for its price will probably be on the high side but the product will be more or less the same as its partner's: take a look at Digilux 3 and Pany DMC-L1 situation, that will bring Leica back into its difficult moments in the past 2-3 years. The market's recognition is that Leica is good at lenses but not the digital cam. (Maybe with an exception of M series, which system attracts almost no competition) Therefore, Leica should put its efforts on m4/3 lenses but not m4/3 camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanette Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted August 20, 2009 I believe that Leica had a great deal of input in the design of the Digilux 2 [...] But my feeling is that Panasonic didn't sell enough of their version to make them want to continue working from such strong Leica input. Right, that's what I also think (and fear). Panasonic is mostly trying to cater to the mass market (they have to) and they probably won't bother to listen to Leica again and instead just walk the road everybody else does. However, the developments in the Micro FourThirds cameras from Panasonic seem to me to be moving again in the direction you and I are looking for. That's the part where we don't agree. The mFT cameras I've seen so far (Olympus EP-1, Panasonic G-1, rumored Panasonic GF-1) are far away from what I would expect from a "Digilux 4" worth its name. The G-1 tries very hard to look and feel like a dSLR while the EP-1 is yet another compact (albeit a stylish one, granted) without a viewfinder. It seems the GF-1 will be similar in concept to the EP-1 but won't look that nice. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that these are bad cameras, no need to argue with me about their specs. They're just not what I'd be looking for.) The mFT system has some interesting aspects, but it certainly won't produce lenses with an aperture ring. (Look at the FT system: Panasonic/Leica tried that with the first two lenses but then immediately gave up when Olympus didn't follow.) And without an aperture ring its counterpart - a proper shutter speed dial - doesn't make much sense either. Maybe we'll see a compact mFT camera with a decent viewfinder in the foreseeable future, but I doubt that the mFT system will ever bear a camera with a traditional control layout similar to the Digilux 2 or the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanette Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted August 20, 2009 take a look at Digilux 3 and Pany DMC-L1 situation, that will bring Leica back into its difficult moments in the past 2-3 years. That's something I don't know much about. Did Leica lose money with the Digilux 3? (And, incidentally, did they lose money with the Digilux 2?) Or what did you mean when you said "difficult moments"? The fact that they couldn't control the progress of the system? I think I heard a couple of times that the Panasonic-Leicas were a profitable business for Leica, but maybe that only applied to the D-Lux and C-Lux compacts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanette Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted August 20, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) The Panasonic GF-1 will be the next Leica Digilux 4 or D-Lux5. Do you know this from a reliable source or are you just guessing? And, even if they re-badge the GF-1 as a "Leica", it will be interesting to see whether they call it "D-Lux 5" or "Digilux 4". If they'd call it "Digilux 4", I'd interpret that as "the gap is closed". If they call it "D-Lux 5", I'll continue to look out for the "Digilux 4". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kievnut Posted August 20, 2009 Share #8 Posted August 20, 2009 >>>Do you know this from a reliable source or are you just guessing? Doesn't mean anything if I told you that is from my "trustful and reputable" local Leica dealer or "my sales rep" friend from Leica. Will let you know after 9/9/09 9pm.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krabat Posted August 21, 2009 Share #9 Posted August 21, 2009 The Panasonic GF-1 will be the next Leica Digilux 4 or D-Lux5. I've got to admit that it would be disappointing in the Pana GF-1 would be the next Digilux 4. As Jeanette wrote (I agree completely with your post!), one of the outstanding features of the Digilux 2 has been the opportunity of manual control, and as far as I can see it from the few images of the GF-1 available so far, it will not be possible there. Best regards, Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanette Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted August 21, 2009 Will let you know after 9/9/09 9pm.... No need to tell me after that. I'll know it myself then... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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