alexr Posted November 16, 2006 Share #101 Posted November 16, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) [quote=jrgeoffrion It's not like anyone needs to shoot with an M8 -- there are other options for those that are not satisfied with an M8. Whilst being, strictly speaking, flawless, this logic is also absurd. Leica is the Ferrari of cameras. Buy a Ferrari, and they will even re-stich the leather seating to make it fit you like a glove. Imagine a company of this repute saying to its adoring and loyal customers "If you have a problem with it, sod off!" It would be bad business for, say, Ford. For a Ferrari-like company, it is simply suicidal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 16, 2006 Posted November 16, 2006 Hi alexr, Take a look here Some news about the M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pascal_meheut Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share #102 Posted November 16, 2006 Leica is the Ferrari of cameras. Buy a Ferrari, and they will even re-stich the leather seating to make it fit you like a glove. Ever bought or owned a Ferrari ? I did and believe me, the amount of problems is 10 times the one we have with the M8. And "commercial gesture" is a word they do not know. Why keeping it ? Why accepting all the default ? Because exactly like the M8, they delivier what they promise once one accepts the fact that they are not perfect, with hardly any competitor (even if Porsche, Lotus and other make nice cars too) Well, there is the myth around it too but I'm talking about people who buy cameras and cars to use them, not to show them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted November 16, 2006 Share #103 Posted November 16, 2006 They re-stiched my best friend's Testarossa. He was very pleased. But he did take it straight to Maranello, himself. Maybe that's better than asking a dealer, i don't know. But if what you say is true, i would expect them to lose customers, which serves them right. Is the fact that you do not own a Ferrari at present a sign that you were not pleased with their behaviour? Kinda proves my point, no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted November 16, 2006 Share #104 Posted November 16, 2006 NO! Alexr, read your own words and then tell us it is logical. You make an assumption, then attribute it to someone else. Really!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyper67 Posted November 16, 2006 Share #105 Posted November 16, 2006 A hypothetycal situation - the M8 makes the best, razor sharp, 3-D, 35 mm digital pics on the planet bar none - (No magenta, streaking, cyan overdose, vignetting add infinitum) the only draw back is in the filters (freely supplied) that one has to attach once on all their lens. Would this be a problem? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share #106 Posted November 16, 2006 Is the fact that you do not own a Ferrari at present a sign that you were not pleased with their behaviour? Kinda proves my point, no? No, it has something to do with my family going from 2 to 3 members and not fitting anymore in 2 seats only Ferrari, the increased police presence on the roads in France and the need of money to start my own business Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted November 16, 2006 Share #107 Posted November 16, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Erl, i was just trying to say that a top company should listen to its customers very carefully. Cited the Ferrari example which Pascal thought inappropriate. The sense of my reply was to say that even if it was inappropriate (and in the case of my friend's Testarossa it wasn't) the concept still stands. A small niche company that wants to survive needs to listen very hard to its die-hard fans (so as not to alienate them) as well as try to win over new fans (which it won't manage to do if these prospective new buyers percieve it as a Company that alienates its best fans.) I hope this clarifies. best regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 16, 2006 Share #108 Posted November 16, 2006 If true, I do think 2 filters per M8 is an incredibly empty, penny-pinching gesture. Existing M8 users have bought the camera on trust that the marketing and technical statements made about it are correct. The lens booklet with the M8 says "Essentially, most Leica M lenses can be used with the Leica M8". This should be modified by one of those pasted in corrections to read "Actually, no Leica M lens can be used with the Leica M8 without the use of a filter which is optional and chargeable". We need to move away from the idea that the IR problem affects only a small number of shooting situations. In fact, it will affect any situation where IR is present which will cast an out of focus haze on the sensor which will be included in the captured image. Since these filters are in effect mandatory, the only convenient way of using them is to have them permanently attached to the lenses. Imagine the hassle of moving a filter from a 24mm to a Tr-Elmar with the lens hood in the way... What especially peeves me is that Leica and their dealers will apparently profit from Leica's incompetence and failure to test the camera adequately by selling all these additional filters - thousands of them. I have 13 M lenses, 12 of them Leica, 9 of them coded, 2 more codeable and I don't relish paying more than 1/4 of the cost of the camera to buy filters for them. If we assume that the filters is the only solution on the table, here's a commercial framework I could work with: - All new lenses to come with a filter. - All lenses already coded receive a filter free of charge. - All new codings receive a filter, with a price uplift of the cost price - not the retail price - of the filter. - Some deal for M8s already shipped based around buying the filters at cost price. Yes, there are financial implications for Leica but they are nothing compared to putting a new sensor in the camera and stopping production for 6 months while they do it. I also worry about the Green Blobs. What's happened to those? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted November 16, 2006 Share #109 Posted November 16, 2006 No, it has something to do with my family going from 2 to 3 members and not fitting anymore in 2 seats only Ferrari, the increased police presence on the roads in France and the need of money to start my own business Best wishes for the new business. Suppose when children grow up it's Ferrari time again, then eh? Please accept my point was just that top companies should go overboard to respect and listen to their (best, possibly all) customers. At present this may not be so for all companies but what is so wrong with hoping for it and asking for it? regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted November 16, 2006 Share #110 Posted November 16, 2006 They re-stiched my best friend's Testarossa. What's funny here is that examples are always from friend's, relatives, family.... but we never have the opportunity to speak with the owner..... I think I'll rely on previous answer of a REAL Ferrari owner who has witnessed what owning a Ferrari means. Leica is NOT a Ferrari, Leica is a LEICA, and if you want to compare please chose products of your very own experience. by the way I am going to open a thread against the Canon 5D. A 2500 Euros + camera with no built in flash??? let's unite!!! let's flame them!!! just a joke !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share #111 Posted November 16, 2006 Yes but as far as I know, they are listening. As I said, they answered mails instantly, did not denied the problems, talked about the solutions and gave delays to come with a definitive answer. And yesterday, the guy I was talking to was German but speaking a perfect french. He was aware of the problems, ready to talk about them and about the solutions, had a filter to demonstrate what it can do and so on. So they made mistakes but this is probably the easiest company to talk to about problems I know. One cannot expect them to announce everyday on the forum what they are working on. And it would be a big mistake because everything said publicly is distorted or use to shoot at the messenger (although not in this thread yet, I must say) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfleica Posted November 16, 2006 Share #112 Posted November 16, 2006 A hypothetycal situation - the M8 makes the best, razor sharp, 3-D, 35 mm digital pics on the planet bar none - (No magenta, streaking, cyan overdose, vignetting add infinitum) the only draw back is in the filters (freely supplied) that one has to attach once on all their lens. Would this be a problem? Not at all for me, since i usually put UV protection on anyway (yes, i know, some feel that's sacrilege, and they do indeed flare occasionally, but....). So, I am eager to see what the fixes really do fix, how much they'd cost ( i expect zero)...and critically, can i use zeiss and CV glass as well as my leica lenses. For me, I do not mind working in RAW, on uncoded lenses, applying the right profiles. But the streaks/blobs must be banished! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Olof Posted November 16, 2006 Share #113 Posted November 16, 2006 SELL? Wash your mouth out. You really meant to say GIVE, yes? -g Leica could give a filter for free to each lense, which sends to them for coding. Than they have the guarantee, that only M8 users gets these "free" filters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfleica Posted November 16, 2006 Share #114 Posted November 16, 2006 Leica could give a filter for free to each lense, which sends to them for coding. Than they have the guarantee, that only M8 users gets these "free" filters. that would diminish the attraction of the M8 proposition for me, if the lenses have to be coded. i don't like the cost implication (but i could maybe live with that). and i can't accept the exclusion of zeiss and cv optics. that's why i would be keen to understand exactly what the coding and in-camera correction would do, and how it could be, instead, deployed post-capture in RAW conversion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted November 16, 2006 Share #115 Posted November 16, 2006 I am getting about a half stop more with the filter This sounds like good news for people who like to keep the ISO-setting as low as possible. What is actually happening here? Who can explain this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 16, 2006 Share #116 Posted November 16, 2006 Peter I mentioned this in the other thread it is more the highlights tend to be hotter but more tests are need to really nail this down Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveYork Posted November 16, 2006 Share #117 Posted November 16, 2006 If it wasn't so pathetic, it would be funny. Having to return your camera after you've been waiting for how long? Well, better late then never. At least they came up with some quick answers, but they've lost a handful of sales for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted November 16, 2006 Share #118 Posted November 16, 2006 im not totally following this M8 saga since i dont intend to buy one and im sure that someone else would have suggested this but.... why is it not an option to coat the sensor glass (the sensor has a thin glass coating) with an appropriate UV coating ? Riley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 16, 2006 Share #119 Posted November 16, 2006 why is it not an option to coat the sensor glass (the sensor has a thin glass coating) with an appropriate UV coating ? Because the problem lies at the other end of the spectrum in the IR? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Qtr Posted November 16, 2006 Share #120 Posted November 16, 2006 Hi Folks, I have an M8 on order, but i am a little worried because i have decided to go for CZ lenses insted of Leica due to cost, and would be interested to know how this would affect what i can do with the camera. I understand i can get a filter to sort out the blacks, but what about the other problems with none coded lenses as the CZ lenses would be. Many Thanks Northern Qtr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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