pdxphoto Posted July 24, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 24, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have been shooting with a M6 for about 10 years with one lens, my trusty 35mm. I want to start pursuing photography again seriously. (I took a break to open my own clothing store.) I am sick of all the bulky gear of the Canon digital system and have really felt at home with the M system. The question is: Is the M8 something I can have for a while and really grow with professionally? I cant afford the 8.2. And I am a little concerned with the lens magnification. I like my 35mm and don't want a 50mm with the same lens after the switch. I am also considering the Canon 5D with the full frame capabilities, but my heart tells me the M is the way to go. I just need the right feedback. Thanks for the help. J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Hi pdxphoto, Take a look here Worth the switch?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest joewehry Posted July 24, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 24, 2009 Take the M8 and Canon for a test drive. Make test print. Listen to your heart. PS (Relax about the crop factor. You'll adjust to it in about 20 clicks.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_mcdermott Posted July 24, 2009 Share #3 Posted July 24, 2009 If your heart tells you the M is the way to go, follow that. I felt the same way going from film M to digital SLR and immediately loved the M8, initial growing pains, quirks and all. The crop factor is absolutely no big deal once you juggle your lens collection to get it to again match the fields of view your used to working with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted July 24, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 24, 2009 Sorry to be blunt, but I'd forget the Canon gear. Mine - including a recently acquired 5D2 - are gathering dust and I feel I always need an excuse to use them so that I can sort of recoup the investment. Actually, sports and fast-moving kids are a sufficient pretext, but it's not nearly as enjoyable as M photography. From my perspective, DSLR = shooting and rangefinder = photographing. Although I must say I got great images from the Canons, those I took with M cameras, both film and digital, are more "special" and, more importantly, are related to a more pleasurable photographic experience, if this makes sense. Anyway, I'd get a demo or used M8 (prices have dropped significantly) and keep the 35 to start with. If you can't adjust to the FOV, then I suggest you try a 28mm - if budget is an issue, you'll find that Zeiss or CV lenses are a more affordable and perfectly acceptable alternative to the Cron or the Elmarit in this focal length. Hope this helps... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxphoto Posted July 24, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted July 24, 2009 Thanks for the help guys. Is there any huge concern with the camera going obsolete soon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted July 24, 2009 Share #6 Posted July 24, 2009 Thanks for the help guys. Is there any huge concern with the camera going obsolete soon? No one really knows how soon is "soon"... The M9 may be announced in a few months and then you may have to wait another year before you can get your hands on it (see the S2). If you want to buy used, then it's another year. And no one knows what the specs (FF?) or selling price of the M9 will be. I'd say price is likely to be 2 or 3 times at least that of a good used M8. Finally, it's not because Leica may be bringing a new M camera on the market that the previous version will stop taking good photos in the right hands Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxphoto Posted July 24, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted July 24, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I know, digital is so volatile. That's the main reason I was hesitant in the first place. The M8 is publication worthy now, so there is no reason it wont be later, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted July 24, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 24, 2009 Thanks for the help guys. Is there any huge concern with the camera going obsolete soon? The only way the M8 will become obsolete is when you think it is. If it is still capable of taking images 5-10-15 years from now then it is not obsolete. That's like saying the M3 or M2 is obsolete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted July 24, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 24, 2009 I bought my first M8 the first week of November 2006. My M8.2 joined it two years later. I switched from an M7, and kept it for a while, and then sold it. If you are an M6 photographer, the M8 will be a dream come true -- at least now that the M8.2 has worked many of the early hiccups. How long will it be usable? I'd venture many years to come: it's very solid. How long will it be as close to "state of the art" as it is now? Honestly, I don't care. And you really won't either. Leica's arent' state of the art, technology division. They are state of the art, optics and shooting joy division. Trust me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted July 24, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 24, 2009 I know, digital is so volatile. That's the main reason I was hesitant in the first place. The M8 is publication worthy now, so there is no reason it wont be later, right? I'm not worried about publication worthiness today since 10mp is plenty for just about any reasonable print need today. Obviously more pixels help with crop and other technical publication aspects for very large prints but when the pixels hit the paper it's fine for just about any equivalent M photography. I have a couple of M8's and they feel like they're going to last me a good many years to come. I can't imagine what digital technology will bring in 10 years but if I get anything like that much life from my cameras I'll be happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 24, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 24, 2009 Pdxphoto, welcome. You have given me a smile tonight - Did you honestly expect to post into the biggest bastion of M8-dom on the planet and expect anyone to try to talk you out of one...? Talk about a foregone conclusion... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted July 24, 2009 Share #12 Posted July 24, 2009 If you are an M6 photographer, the M8 will be a dream come true -- at least now that the M8.2 has worked many of the early hiccups. I hear this over and over. The M8.2 is the exact same camera as the M8 except for the shutter speed, dropped on the M8.2, The sound of the shutter, less on the M8.2, Frameline size, larger on the M8.2, the cover on the LCD screen and S (Stupid) Mode. All of these things, except (Stupid) S mode, can be had on the M8 with the upgrade program. The internals of the camera are exactly the same. The image they produce are exactly the same. I have at this time 2 M8's that are just as dependable as any M8.2 whether it was a first production run camera or one that was made yesterday or for that matter today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfspencer Posted July 24, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 24, 2009 The only way the M8 will become obsolete is when you think it is. Amen to that! J, I have a Canon 50D and three "L" lenses. All of that gear is gathering dust. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyTotaro Posted July 24, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 24, 2009 A big vote for M from me. I have a 5D and always prefer the M8. Worst case is that you could 'keep up' with the M upgrades by just staying one or two generations behind the current model therefore taking advantage of the used market price reductions. The biggest change will be if the FF chip ever comes along, other than that the M8.1 will do just fine. Welcome back to photography! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjorlsrgn Posted July 24, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 24, 2009 I hear this over and over. The M8.2 is the exact same camera as the M8 except for the shutter speed, dropped on the M8.2, The sound of the shutter, less on the M8.2, Frameline size, larger on the M8.2, the cover on the LCD screen and S (Stupid) Mode. All of these things, except (Stupid) S mode, can be had on the M8 with the upgrade program. The internals of the camera are exactly the same. The image they produce are exactly the same.I have at this time 2 M8's that are just as dependable as any M8.2 whether it was a first production run camera or one that was made yesterday or for that matter today. J- I bought my M8 about 7 months ago and took advantage of the rebate, not wanting to spend the extra$ on the M8.2. As Shootist says, it's essentially the same camera except for a few small items and: 1. In my opinion, the shutter sound is not the least bit offensive, especially when compared to my Nikon DSLR (which I haven't used since the purchase). And I keep the 1/8000 speed which is useful with my 28 Cron. 2. Haven't had a problem framing my shots (once I got used to the lens shade!), and no major scratches or problems with the screen. 3. As for the S mode, why would anyone purchasing a Leica M ever want this feature? While I am just a hobbyist photographer, I would be embarassed if anyone noticed that I was using this setting. (Buy a D-Lux 4 instead!) Bottom line: yes, follow your heart, but you'll love your images, and you still get to use that wonderful Leica glass. I don't think you'll be disappointed for the next few years, even if the M9 starts shipping. By the way, you could probably purchase a reliable used M8 and 28 Elmarit (to get you back to your beloved 35mm after the crop) for a lot less than a new M8.2 body. Good luck with your decision- Hal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted July 24, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 24, 2009 If you are happy with the M6, I think you will love the M8. Obsolete? Dunno. Read the article on Thom Hogan's website in which he says more or less that if Nikon never upgrades the D300/D700 he'd be happy. And consider that maybe for all practical purposes your M6 is already obsolete? I rented an M8 because I was afraid to leap over the digital divide. Looking at those raw files convinced me. It is nice not to have the question posed as "I have been shooting an DSLR for several years and want to sell it to buy an M8." That is potentially a different question. Since you're already at home with the M camera, I think you will be very happy with the M8, especially at current "recertified" prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted July 25, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 25, 2009 If I were you I'd go for the M8 (Not 8.2) and use the extra cash for a 28mm lens to equal your current 35. The M8 is all I shoot for all of my personal and assignment work except for rare cases when I need a 180 or 300mm lens. The files print and uprez beautifully, they're good enough for agency and publication use and I couldn't be happier with the M8. Well, I might be a tad happier with a full-frame M, but I'd sure rather use the M8 than any canon or nikon camera. I'm happiest with rangefinders and the M8 shoots just like any other M camera. Of course it would be smart to borrow/rent one to try out, but if you like your M6 I'm sure you'll like the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted July 25, 2009 Share #18 Posted July 25, 2009 I have been shooting with a M6 for about 10 years with one lens, my trusty 35mm. I want to start pursuing photography again seriously. (I took a break to open my own clothing store.) I am sick of all the bulky gear of the Canon digital system and have really felt at home with the M system. The question is: Is the M8 something I can have for a while and really grow with professionally? I cant afford the 8.2. And I am a little concerned with the lens magnification. I like my 35mm and don't want a 50mm with the same lens after the switch. I am also considering the Canon 5D with the full frame capabilities, but my heart tells me the M is the way to go. I just need the right feedback. Well, firstly, what kind of work are you going to do? ( Grow with professionally ) Secondly, if you are like me and like a 35mm FOV as a starting lens to mount, then you are going to have to get a 28 in place of the 35. I use four M bodies for professional work, two M3's one MP-3 and an M6TTL. I had an M8 for 15 months, sold it last Fall. I think the M8 is a nice camera, but to be blunt, if the M8.2 had been the camera that had first came out, I would have kept it. The shutter and advance noise on the M8 is notably worse than your M6, it is not only loud, but odd sounding in the advance. The battery capacity in cold weather is low. The lockups if you shoot in continuous are a pain once and awhile too, firmware updates have not fixed this. The frame lines in the M8 are annoying too, especially the 50mm ones, the M8.2 is much improved. When I need to shoot digital for jobs including discreet documentary work, instead of an M8, I use my D700 with either a 28 F/2 or a 35 F/2 Carl Zeiss. I put a Katzeye screen in the D700 and it is now almost as easy to manually focus in low light than the M is. The low ISO files on the M8 are really good, although they get some strange artifacts in high contrast areas with the aspheric lenses at times. The moire is pretty bad too though, among the worst I have seen in a modern digital camera. The files from the D700 at low ISO are pretty close to the M8 when I use my better glass, but get above 800 and the D700 just totally runs away with it, no contest. I had two 5D's when I used Canon, still to this day a landmark camera with outstanding files even at high ISO as well. Renown Magnum photographer Jonas Bendikson used a 5D, 28mm 1.8 and 50mm 1.4 and no bag to shoot this great essay in documentary style, just as low key in operation as a Leica: Dharavi - Photo Gallery - National Geographic Magazine Also, consider you will need to get an IR/cut filter for what ever lens you use on the M8 due to certain fabrics turning purple without it. Sometimes in low light, it catches reflections and has caused someone to comment in person at least three times in professional situations, not really what I want while trying to be low key. Pickup an IR cut filter and try it some time, it is about the most obvious filter in terms of reflections I have ever used. I also think you should visit the film side of the forum too since you already have a worthy M6 / 35 combo and there are plenty of great film choices still out there. One member on here, "Riccis" is a top notch wedding shooter who went back to his film M's after using the M8. Get an M8 if you like it, but I would try it first, see about a *good*warranty as well and be prepared to part with it for weeks if not months if anything goes wrong. So there you have it, a more balanced view of the M8 based on experience, no inquiry is complete without it...:-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted July 25, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 25, 2009 I hear this over and over. The M8.2 is the exact same camera as the M8 except for the shutter speed, dropped on the M8.2, The sound of the shutter, less on the M8.2, Frameline size, larger on the M8.2, the cover on the LCD screen and S (Stupid) Mode. All of these things, except (Stupid) S mode, can be had on the M8 with the upgrade program. The internals of the camera are exactly the same. The image they produce are exactly the same.I have at this time 2 M8's that are just as dependable as any M8.2 whether it was a first production run camera or one that was made yesterday or for that matter today. Sorry, but I completely disagree. My narrative was incomplete: I actually had two M8s before getting the M8.2. I did not want this to become a trash the M8 post, but my original M8 was hauled back to Solms twice for various problems, the second one had to go back to New Jersey, etc. The M8.2 may be the identical camera to an upgraded M8, but it also has the advantage of actually working without circuit board problems, shutters that don't fire, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxphoto Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted July 25, 2009 Do you guys think buying used is a safe way to go or just spend the extra for a new one with 2 year warranty??? I cant afford the 8.2. But I would probably do several upgrades to the 8 anyway. Thanks, J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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